Naked Bible Podcast Episode 213: Do Good Works Contribute to Salvation?

Naked Bible Podcast Transcript

Episode 213
Do Good Works Contribute to Salvation?
April 28, 2018

Teacher: Dr. Michael S. Heiser (MH)

Host: Trey Stricklin (TS)

Episode Summary

What is the proper biblical relationship between faith and works? Do

good works contribute to salvation? If not, then why should we care
about the way we live? Personal holiness is something taught in
Scripture, but the desire to please God in our lives often leaves
Christians guilty when they fail. Believers begin to suspect God doesn’t
love them any longer—or at least not as much. The result is that the
clarity of the gospel gets muddled. This episode of the podcast aims to
help us think clearly about grace, faith, and works in the Christian life.

Transcript

TS: Welcome to the Naked Bible Podcast, Episode 213: Do Good Works
Contribute to Salvation? I'm the layman, Trey Stricklin, and he's the scholar, Dr.
Michael Heiser. Well, today we’re talking about salvation. I guess it's the number
one topic, if there is a number one topic. It's kind of a big deal here. We’ve
touched on good work several times, so I'm interested to see what you add to the
conversation.

MH: Yeah, I mean this this keeps coming up, and this kind of grows out of the
Q&A episode that we had after the book of Hebrews, because the book of
Hebrews is just really so focused on believers staying in the faith. We often
talked in our series on Hebrews (and, of course, in the Q&A) about how the
emphasis there is to keep believing. I's not to do X number of works, then you
sort of cross the finish line—you break the tape and then you're in. So the subject
matter in Hebrews often lent itself to this conversation about faith and works and
lapsing in faith. “Oh, does that mean I sinned—I committed a sin and now I lose
my salvation?” Those kinds of discussions. So in view of the fact that we got
questions about that in the Q&A, even after the whole series… And again, there
were a few particular ones in there. I had made the comment in that Q&A that,
“Boy, we need to just sort of devote an episode to this. This is that episode. And
I'll be honest with you: having sort of run over this territory with a considerable
amount of frequency in in the series on Hebrews and in other places,
I didn't quite know how to structure this so that it would be sort of different. But I
thought about that for 10 or 15 minutes, then I just sort of threw it to the wind and

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abandoned it. What I'm going to do is we're going to just go through several
propositions—idea statements—and then we're going to read a lot of scripture in
this episode and focus on what the text says (that's what we try to do here) and
sort out the faith and works things. So for many people, this is this is going to
sound a little bit axiomatic, like, “Oh this is so obvious. Why would this even be a
question? But for a lot of believers it is a question.

So if you're not struggling with this, don't check out. I can almost guarantee that
you know someone in your church or your family or your circle of friends who
does struggle with some of these things, and so you want to listen, direct them to
this, pay attention, and share things yourself with other believers that you know.

So having set it up like that, our comments about works are really going to be
focused primarily on post-cross work. In other words, the idea of working your
way into heaven is pretty patently obvious that that's not what salvation is about.
But we are gonna spend a few moments discussing that as we begin. But for the
bulk of our time it's going to be on. “Well, okay, if works aren't about salvation
then what's the point? Why do we care about living in a certain way? What’s the
whole point to this if it doesn't contribute to salvation? If it's not essential for
salvation, then why do we bother?” That's where we're going in the episode.

Let's start with several propositions. Faith and works… I think at the outset we
need to realize that faith and works are not rivals to each other. They should not
be pitted against one another. And the latter (works) does not supplement the
former, as though the former faith is somehow deficient—like, “You have really
strong faith. You understand the gospel. You embrace it and believe it, but that's
just not enough. That's deficient. That's not adequate. We need to add our works
to that.” Again, those are those are ideas that in some circles might be fairly
common, but I think it's easy to demonstrate that they’re unscriptural.

So the first proposition… I would put it this way: scripture is absolutely clear that
our works do not merit—and that's a key word—or earn God's grace and love.
The fact that we do good works (or to use biblical language, “the works of the
5:00 law”)… Our obedience to God is not what earns God's grace or earns God's love.
Therefore, works for the Christian are not about earning merit before God to
obtain eternal life.

Now, there's any number of passages that are going to be tracking on this. Let's
just go to Galatians 2. We're probably familiar with verse 20, but that actually has
a context:
20
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who
lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of
God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

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Okay, there's something that precedes it and there's something that comes after
it. So if we go all the way back to verse 11… I said we're going to read a lot of
scripture here, and we're going to do that. I'm just going to comment on things as
we go. So if we go to Galatians 2:11, this is the Paul/Peter confrontation. Paul is
speaking;
11
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he
stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating
with the Gentiles;

So Peter was enjoying meals/fellowship with the Gentiles. But when they came
(these men from James), he drew back. Peter drew back and separated himself,
fearing the circumcision party. He's afraid that Jewish believers (people who are
Christians, most likely, but really into the law) were going to criticize him. So he
shrank back—he drew back. He separated himself from the Gentiles. Verse 13:
13
And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even
Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that
their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas
[Peter] before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a
Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

In other words, “Hey, you were buddying up with the Gentiles. That was fine. If
it's okay (and apparently you believed it was correct before these other men
came)… If you believed it was fine to do non-Torah-ish things such as fellowship
and having meals with Gentiles, but now you've recoiled as though it's wrong,
then where do you get the authority—or the even the coherence—of telling
Gentiles that they have to live like Jews? You weren't living like a Jew. So which
is it, Peter? Which is it?” And of course, Paul's point is that “You were right
before. The truth of the gospel is that we don't need to do Torah-observant stuff.
Again, these are issues of conscience. These are not issues of being right with
God.” Peter's the guy in the book of Acts who had the vision: “Rise, Peter, kill and
eat.” Peter says, “Oh, you know, I haven't eaten any of these unclean things my
whole life.” And God tells him, “What God has called clean do not call unclean,”
and the whole point is that this was preparing Peter for ministry to the Gentiles.

Well, Peter seems to have forgotten that, but Paul didn't. Again, Paul understood
that theology and he confronts Peter about it. He confronts him. We continue with
verse 15. Paul is speaking here.
15
We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners;

In other words, “We're Jews and we don't do a lot of that stuff that the Gentiles
do.”

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16
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through
faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be
justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the
law no one will be justified.

I mean, I don't know how much clearer you can make it, and yet we have a lot of
Christians who, for some reason (we're going to talk about those reasons today)
somehow believe or are taught that they have to mix faith in Christ with works to
keep God happy or make God happy. And they might say, “Well, I'm not doing
that to have eternal life. I know the gospel. I know that salvation is not earned by
works.” Well, then, why do you insist on doing or not doing certain things, as
10:00 though those are essential to have God positively predisposed toward you—to
have God love you? Why do you think that? It's not a coherent thought. And
we're going to come back to the old verse. You know it: “While we were yet
sinners, Christ died for us.” We're gonna add a few… Ephesians: “While we were
enemies, hostile toward God, God loved us showed grace toward us.” Okay,
those scriptural thoughts are incompatible with the notion that we have to do
certain works or a certain amount of certain works so that God is kept smiling at
us—so that God keeps loving us. It's just not true, yet this is what floats around in
a lot of believers’ minds, when you have clear scriptural statements to the
contrary. And again, we'll talk about why that might be. Verse 17:
17
But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be
sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not!

This is another way of saying. “Well, if we're justified in Christ then we can just do
what we want.” And then Christ is like the servant of sin. He facilitates sin. It's the
same question as back in Romans here: “Shall we continue in sin that grace may
abound? God forbid!” Paul says, and he says the same thing here. The ESV
translates it “certainly not.” It's me genoito, which is the same as it is in Romans:
“God forbid.” Verse 18:
18
For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 For
through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have
been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.
And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved
me and gave himself for me.

Here's what comes after the verse that everybody memorizes. Here's what
comes after Galatians 2:20. This one's just as important—maybe even more so.
Paul says:

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21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the
law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Again, I just don't know how much clearer it can possibly be. If you are believing,
if you are thinking that your works (the works of the law) are what puts the grace
of God over the hump–that the grace of God is going to fail unless we add your
works to mix, in that the grace of God is deficient without your works, then you
nullify the grace of God. And your theology says (even though your mouth might
not) that Christ died for no purpose. Paul is blunt. He's clear, and we're going to
talk about why, even with this clarity, people still get stuck on this. Here's another
passage: Romans 3:27. This is Romans 3. Paul has spent the first two chapters
talking about the Gentiles being lost in their sin and he talks about the Jews
being in the same state, and how the Jews are kind of worse in some ways
because they had the oracles of God. And then they're still separated from God
because they need to believe in the gospel. They need to believe in Christ. So he
says in verse 27, trying to convince now mostly Jewish readers to think clearly
about salvation. He writes about doing works of the law:
27
Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a
law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

He's talking about how we don't have any reason to boast because salvation is
not based on works. The fact that salvation is by faith excludes our boasting
because salvation is no longer dependent on our performance. Salvation in
biblical theology is not merit-based. Verse 28:
28
For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29 Or is
God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles
also, 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the
uncircumcised through faith.

Those are the Jews and the uncircumcised the Gentiles through faith. They're
both justified the same way.

Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary,

31

15:00 we uphold the law.

The context of this is what Paul has been saying about the purpose of the law: to
show us our failure—to show us that we needed grace, here in Romans 3. Going
into chapter 4, Paul decides to illustrate the point with Abraham. Everybody
knows who Abraham is. He's talking to the mostly Jewish audience.

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What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to
the flesh?2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast
about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham
believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one
who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.

It's what's owed him. In other words, if salvation is by works, then God owes it to
you. If Abraham was saved by works—by his behavior, by his performance—
then God owed him salvation. And Paul is denying this. His wages are not
counted as a gift, but as his due. And to the one who does not work, but believes
in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness. In other
words, the person who doesn't depend on his merit—his works—but believes in
him who justifies the ungodly—he believes the gospel—his faith is counted as
righteousness. It's the opposite of works, just as David also speaks of the
blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works. Then
he quotes the Old Testament:

“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,

and whose sins are covered;
8
blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

9
Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the
uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as
righteousness. 10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had
been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.

In other words, Abraham was right with God. He believed before the issue of
circumcision ever came up. Paul uses the circumcision illustration here because
the Abrahamic Covenant was sealed with circumcision. That was the sign of the
Covenant, and Paul's argument is that Abraham believed God before any of this
circumcision stuff was even in the picture. That was the basis of salvation—not
the work, not the deed, not the obedience that came afterwards. Verse 11:
11
[Abraham] received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness
that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make
him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that
righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12 and to make him the father
of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the
footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

Now catch that Abraham is the father of both groups. According to Paul, he's the
father of the Gentiles because salvation is by faith. It has nothing to do with

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Jewish rituals. It has nothing to do with Torah observance. But he's also the
leading figure for the Jew. Why? Because he believed prior to the circumcision.
Salvation was by faith in both instances, and this is Paul's argument. So again,
you look at this and think, “How in the world can this not be crystal clear?” I
would say it is crystal clear.

We'll move on to the next proposition. Number two: scripture is absolutely clear
that our works are not what causes God to love us or what keeps God loving us.
Again, the go-to text here and I think it really is important, but we're going to
consider some other ones. Here is Romans 5. I'll start in verse 6. Paul—the
same epistle, writing to the Romans. He says:
6
For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

“Weak” there is a common New Testament Greek term for “to be weak or sickly
or diseased,” or you have some malady. Our malady is, of course, sin—our
separation from God.
6
For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For
one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person
one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we
were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been
20:00 justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of
God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of
his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Again—a reference to the resurrection. While we were yet sinners—while we

were enemies—God showed his love for us. Christ died for us. By definition, God
didn't wait for good performance to love us. Scripture states the contrary—the
antithetical idea that while we were enemies—while we were in an adversarial
position to God, he still loved us. While we were sinners—while we were doing all
sorts of things that God is displeased with—God still loved us. John 3:16...
I mean, it seems like everybody in the universe has heard this verse some time:
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only son”—his monogenes, his
unique son—“that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal
life.” It doesn't say “whoever adds sufficient works while believing in him.”
It doesn't say “whoever works,” okay? Works are not part of the equation.
“Whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” The verse is
not a mystery. The verse is crystal clear. There's no mystery here. In Colossians
1:21-23, Paul is speaking to Gentiles predominantly:

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21
And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22 he
has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you
holy and blameless and above reproach before him, 23 if indeed you continue in
the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that
you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of
which I, Paul, became a minister.

Sounds like the book of Hebrews there: “You’ve got to believe.” Notice it doesn't
say, “Now you who were once alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
he has now reconciled in his in his body when he saw the change in your
behavior. You were reconciled when you turned your life around, when you
cleaned up your act, when you just… when you manage to do enough good
works more than bad works, when you managed to contribute enough, then God
said, ‘Okay, we'll do the transaction now.’” It doesn't say any of that. He has
reconciled you in his body of flesh by his death, and because of that he's going to
be able to present you to God, if indeed you continue in faith. It doesn't say “if
indeed you continue to do enough good works, if indeed you continue to produce
the quality of life that God is pleased with.” It doesn't say that, folks.

The passages are clear. Ephesians 2… I'm going to beat this drum because this
just keeps coming up. Paul again, in a different letter:

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked,
following the course of this world…

You're sinful. You're following the course of this world, following the prince of the
power of the air, okay? You're in Satan's back pocket.

…following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work
in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions
of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by
nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

That's who you are. That's who you were. “But God, once he saw your change of
life… But God, once he saw you clean up your act… But God, once he saw that
you were serious about reforming yourself… But God, once he saw that you
realized that you needed to keep kosher or do Torah or do X, Y, ___________...”
You fill in the blank with whatever you want and it's going to be wrong because
the text says:
4
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved
us…

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And he loved you while you were all those things in the first three verses.
4
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved
25:00 us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with
Christ—by grace you have been saved…

I can't improve on what the New Testament says. How is it that we could
possibly… I mean, if you read passages like this, how is it that we could possibly
think that our works are an indispensable supplement to salvation? How could
we think that our works are essential to God's positive disposition toward us? It's
theological insanity, but it's common. We’ll say a little bit more about it as we
proceed, but just to kind of do a little sidebar here… For anyone who's
redeemed—anybody who's a believer—we feel shame before God when we sin,
but our shame should not be allowed to pervert grace. Our shame must not be
parsed as proof that God now hates us or that he's lost love for us. If anything,
our shame is proof that there's something about us that has changed, not that
God has changed. To think or insist that works contribute to salvation means
grace isn't enough. That's really the bottom line. That's what your theology is,
regardless of what you say. If you're thinking that works are essential, that is your
theology—that grace is not enough. I don't really care what comes out of your
mouth. If that's what you're thinking, that's your theology. And it's not biblical
theology, since the grace of God was shown to us through Christ's sacrifice.
Then Christ's work isn’t enough—that's what you're saying, and I would take you
back to Galatians 2:21, which we just read:

For if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Or Galatians 5:4:

…you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

And that's a problem. That's a problem because Paul's just saying you're not
believing the gospel then. You have to believe the gospel—the good news. The
good news is that Christ died on your behalf. God loved you. Christ gave himself
for you, and your faith—your belief, your trust—in that is what matters. That's
what matters to God. Your merit—your performance—doesn't play a role in this
at all. Because if it did, then Christ's death is kind of pointless.

Third proposition: scripture is absolutely clear that since works do not amount to
merit before God and are not what makes God love us, then works, therefore,
must be a result of true faith—that validates true faith. So if works aren't the one
thing, then logically they must be another thing. So if works are not about merit
before God and not about earning salvation—if they're not about getting God to

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love us… We're doing enough, “I'm active over here Lord! Pay attention so that
you can look at what I'm doing so that you love me.” If that's not what it's about,
then works must be about something else, and the something else is that works
are the result. Faith and works validate genuine faith. We could go back to
Romans 5 now. We just read Romans 5:6-10, but the preceding verses get at
this point. Paul says:

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God
through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by
faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of
God. 3 Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that
suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and
character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's
love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been
given to us.

Paul is getting at, “Look, we're already justified by faith, but when we respond,
when we obey, and when we do the right thing in enduring suffering and the
circumstances of life that produces character. It produces character”. So works,
30:00 behavior—what a person is behaviorally is going to be—is a byproduct in some
way of responding to the gospel, and then understanding, as Paul says, that we
stand in grace through faith. This world is not our home. We have eternal life, so
life here really sucks, but this world is not our home. It's going to help us to
endure and rejoice in our sufferings, and that produces character. Another way of
looking at this (and sort of the primary passage/book for a lot of this is James…
we talked about James in the last, you know Q&A)… Some of this is going to
sound familiar from Episode 201 (our Q&A on Hebrews). We got into James, but
I'm just going to repeat some of that and add a few other things because James
is consistent with this idea that works validate real faith. Works are not a
substitute for faith in James' theology. They validate faith. Faith is the essential
ingredient for James, and I'm going I'm going to show you why that's the case
here. James is famous in verse 17. James 2:17 says that faith without works is
dead. If we have faith by itself, in other words… faith without works is dead. If
faith is not alive—it's not genuine—then faith with works is real. It's genuine. In
other words, works validate faith. They don't take faith off the table as a
substitute for faith. Works don't eliminate faith. Works don't supersede faith.
Works don't allow faith to be dispensed with. Works validate faith. If faith without
works is dead, then faith with works is real. It's genuine and it's essential. It has
to be there. Works validate true faith. The absence of works means the absence
of genuine faith. That's why he's even talking about works. James is not talking
about works to say, “Oh, that faith stuff… You don't need any of that. What you
need is works. You need merit. You got to earn yourself…” No, that's not what
he's saying. The only reason he's talking about works is because he wants to
know if your faith is real. That's the only reason the discussion is even happening

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in James. So this notion that he's doing this bait-and-switch kind of thing is just
false. It's bad theology. It's a bad reading. It's an inept reading of the text. The
only reason he's even into it is he wants to know, is your faith real? That's the
question. James never says here or anywhere else that works are what saves.
The primary issue for James is faith, not works.

Now, this can be shown by asking the question: What is living or dead? “Faith
without works is dead,” James says. That's what he actually says. He never says
works without faith are dead. What James is concerned with… He's concerned
with what? “I want to know you know what's living or dead.” And what he's
concerned about being alive—being real—is faith. His focus is still that. Even
though his talk is about works, the only reason he's into the subject is he wants to
know, “Is your faith real?” You can profess lots of things and if your life just
doesn't show it then James is saying, “I have every reason to doubt that your
faith is genuine.” He's not saying, “You’ve got to realize that if you don't do
enough work, you're not going to get to Heaven." That's not what he's saying.
He's saying, “If I don't see works, then I just I'm not confident that your faith is
real. I'm concerned about your faith. I'm not concerned about your tally of works.
I'm concerned about whether your faith is real.” Why would James be concerned
about that? Because he knows faith is what saves. That’s why.

I tried to illustrate this in the earlier Q&A. I said the absence of works doesn't
say, “Oh crud. I just didn't work hard enough to merit eternal life. No, the absence
of work says that faith isn't here. It isn't to be found. Can't find it. Works are not a
substitute for faith; faith cannot be exchanged for works. Works show that faith is
in the building. And I tried to use a couple… It's not exactly a syllogism, but I tried
to use different vocabulary. So starting out with works and faith,
I wrote and said this:

Works (that is, our actions) don't produce faith. Works don't replace faith. Works
validate or demonstrate faith.

In other words, they show that faith is there—that faith is in the building.
35:00
Works are therefore necessary to show that faith is real. Their absence invalidates
a claim that faith is in the building.

No, it's not. If faith is in the building, we would see works. He's talking about,
Is it living or dead? Is it here or not?” And what is it? Faith. Now, substitutes… I
tried a few: “Let's do kind gestures and love.” Same rule: relationships for faith
and works. Kind gestures don't produce love, do they? No, they don't. Kind
gestures don't replace love. Anybody knows this. Anybody who has a single
healthy relationship knows that kind gestures don't produce love. They don't
replace love. They're not a substitute for love. Kind gestures can validate love,
though. If someone loves you, they will be kind. Kind gestures are necessary,

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therefore, to show that love is real. Their absence invalidates a claim of love.

Let's try obedience and loyalty again. The same relationships: obedience doesn't
produce loyalty. Obedience doesn't replace loyalty. You can obey without really
being loyal, you know. You can do it grudgingly. You can obey, biding your time
for the moment that you can strike back. You can take revenge. You can leave
the building. You can leave home, whatever. These two are not the same thing.
Obedience and loyalty are not the same thing. Obedience does not produce
loyalty. It does not replace loyalty. But obedience can validate loyalty. Obedience
is necessary to show that loyalty is real. How could you say you're loyal to
someone if you never obey them? It's absurd.

Again: faith and works. We have to get these things straight. The only reason
James is concerned with the works conversation is not because he's concerned,
“I just want to know that you've done enough—that you've merited salvation. Oh,
I'm concerned about that!” No, he wants to know if faith is real. That's why he's
having the discussion.

Now a question: “In light of all that, Mike, can we just sin all we want now?” To
echo Paul: “God forbid!” I mean, are you insane? But if Paul got the question,
who are we to think that we won't get the question? Of course, we get the
question, because Paul got it. Again, Romans 6 is sort of a fundamental passage
for this. Let's go to Romans 6:15. Paul says:

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By
15

no means!

Me genoito: “God forbid.” No way.

16
Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,
you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death,
or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that
you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to
the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set
free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human
terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your
members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness,
so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to…

Does he say salvation? See, up above, he says in verse 16… let me read it
again:

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 Naked Bible Podcast Episode 213: Do Good Works Contribute to Salvation?

16
Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,
you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death,
or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

See people will read that and say, “Oh, yeah, he's talking about earning
salvation.” Really? Really? Well, try reading down three verses. Verse 19:
19
I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as
you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness
leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to
righteousness leading to…

He doesn't say “salvation.” It says “leading to sanctification.” Paul is not teaching

salvation by works here. He's teaching that if you surrender yourself… You can
surrender yourself to one thing or the other. You can do stuff that produces
40:00 death, self-destruction, destruction of others, or you can serve God—serve Jesus
Christ—and that will make you a righteous person. It’s about doing right things,
but he doesn't say in verse 9 that that leads to salvation. He says it leads to
sanctification. It leads to becoming the kind of person God wants you to be.
That's a normal way of putting sanctification. Theologians are like, “progressing
toward holiness.” Okay, technically, linguistically, that's how you would say that,
but let's just be real. Sanctification is the process of becoming more like Jesus.
It's the process of imaging Jesus—imitating him—imaging Jesus, which, of
course, is also imaging God. It's becoming more godly. It's becoming the kind of
person that God wants you to be because he created you to image him and he
gave you his son. Yes, so that you could have eternal life for what happened on
the cross, but he also… I've talked a number of times on the podcast about how
Christ is referred to as the image of God—the express image of God— and that
we are being conformed to the image of his son—God's son. Jesus is the
template for how to live. That's all this is saying. It's not talking about earning
eternal life. And if you go on in Romans 6:20:
20
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

Go live it up, okay?

21
But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are
now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

Just a suggestion—a profound thought here: if something leads to death (to self-
destruction), it's not good and you shouldn't be enslaved by it. That's all Paul is
saying. Verse 22:

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 Naked Bible Podcast Episode 213: Do Good Works Contribute to Salvation?

22
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of
God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.

You're going to become like Jesus. The sanctification is becoming like Jesus
now, and ultimately (like 1 John says) when we are glorified we will be as much
like him as we can possibly be. This is all Paul's talking about: imitating Christ
and being conformed to his image. Why? So that he decides to put up with you?
We can't obtain this perfection. We can't obtain perfection. Paul's language is
that we are in Christ when all this this stuff about sanctification is going on. We
are in him. We are united to him. We are part of his body. We are not just our
own body now. We need to submit as slaves, not to the body of sin—our normal
body—but to this other body that we're united to. This is Roman 6. Go back to
the beginning of Romans 6 and just look at the language there:
5
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be
united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was
crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so
that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been
set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also
live with him.

Again, this whole chapter starts with being in Christ, and it ends with this idea of
progressively being sanctified—being conformed to the one whose body we are
a part of. The body of Christ… being conformed to the image of Christ. And then
ultimately, we're going to have eternal life, but not because of our own effort.
It's because we're united to him. That's why we have eternal life. And when we
get to that point, as John says and as Paul says in other places, we're going to
be like him. We will be made like him. That's the end point. That's the terminus
point for all of this.

Another question: if we're not just supposed to “sin it up now” (just do what we
want), why should we care? Why should we put forth an effort? “Okay, you
convinced me, Mike, and I'm not just going to go out and sin as much as I
possibly can so that grace will cover it.” (That's the “God forbid” moment there in
Romans 6.) “But hey, you know, I'm not going to put too much effort into the
other either. Why, if I can't earn any favor with God? I'll promise God that I'm not
going to go crazy on the sin side. But why should I bother with good works? Why
should I bother? What's the point?” I would say there are several reasons why we
should try to live a holy life. We should try to (as Paul just said in Romans 6)
make ourselves a slave to righteousness. We already know we're not going to
earn anything by that because God loved us while we were sinners—while we
45:00 were enemies, while we were hostile, while we were in Satan's back pocket. God
loved us despite all that. Our salvation is by faith because of what God
accomplished through Christ on the cross. Okay, we get that. It doesn't really

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Naked Bible Podcast Episode 213: Do Good Works Contribute to Salvation?

earn us anything. So why should we do it? There are several reasons. I'm just I'm
just gonna throw out the first three here. Not in any particular order here.

Our works are a service to others. That's one good reason why we should care
about how we live. Even though we don't earn brownie points with God, we
should be a blessing to others. Our works make us a blessing to others, or a
curse. We serve others or we don't. Our works make us useful for God's
purposes or not. And you know why we should care? Because we're supposed to
be imaging God. We're supposed to be being conformed to the image of Christ,
who is the template—the perfect image, the perfect example. We're supposed to
be disciples imaging Jesus. Imitating Jesus is the definition of discipleship.
And we do that fundamentally in two ways. How would Jesus reduce this? If
Jesus were here in the room and we said, "Hey, Jesus… How do we best imitate
you? What do we do? Give us the grocery list.” We know what he would say
because he said in the Gospels that we should love God and love others. It's not
that complicated. Jesus could actually… He even says that all the law and the
prophets can be reduced to these things. That's why he gives that answer: love
God and love others. In other words, relate to God the way Jesus did and relate
to people the way Jesus did. Love God the way Jesus did. Treat other people the
way Jesus did.

So again, those three things, not any particular order… Good works are about
being a servant to others because Jesus was a servant to others.
They should be about being a blessing to others because Jesus blessed other
people. They should be about being useful for God's plan. And Jesus was
certainly useful. He didn't get sidetracked. Well, just a few passages here. Let's
go to Titus 3:3-8. Paul is talking to his audience and including himself here:
3
For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various
passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy…

Good grief. It sounds like Facebook, actually. [laughs]

…passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one
another. 4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior
appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness,
but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of
the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our
Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to
the hope of eternal life. 8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on
these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote
themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for
people.

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 Naked Bible Podcast Episode 213: Do Good Works Contribute to Salvation?

Why should we do good works? Believers should devote themselves to good

works. These things are excellent and profitable for people. It's serving people.
It's living like Jesus lived. You go down to verse 14 and he sort of picks up the
thought again:
14
And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help
cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.

Let me put that little more negatively and say, “not be useless.” Doing good
works puts you in the position of God being able to use you to serve other people
and to bless people. If you're thinking that your good works are earning favor with
God, you are distracted at best. You're distracted and you're really not imaging
Jesus at that point. Hebrews 10:24 (and we saw this in our series):
24
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works…

Well, in the context of Hebrews 10, it was like, “Look, you stir each other up to
50:00 live as you ought because there's mutual benefit in the believing community to
doing that. If you're all sitting around waiting to die… If you're all sitting around
and it's like, “Oh, the situation is just hopeless. Let's all of us just sit here and wait
for death or something.” I mean, look, that's not accomplishing what God wants
accomplished, either in terms of your own mutual benefit as a community or in
terms of what you're supposed to be doing with the lost world. Fulfilling the Great
Commission is not waiting for death. Ephesians 2:10… We have verses 8 and 9,
which those are the ones everybody memorizes:
8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own
doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Here's verse 10:

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which
10

God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

In other words, God has a plan. God has something in mind for each one of you.
He really does—he has something in mind. And you were created in Christ. In
other words, you were redeemed. You were saved for the purpose of good
works. Works are a byproduct of salvation. Ephesians 4… again, a pretty famous
passage. This is where Paul says that we are supposed to… verse 22:
22
to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is
corrupt through deceitful desires, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your

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minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true
righteousness and holiness.

There's that idea of progressively imitating Jesus—progressively becoming more

like him. At the end of the road, if we remain in faith, as Paul said (and Hebrews
says several times), we're going to have eternal life. But we're also going to be
maximally like him. We're going to be transformed upon our glorification, when
we pass through the veil (however we want to put that). At the end of the road,
when we join the council (Hebrews chapter 2), we are made fit for sacred space.
That's the end point. Paul says in Ephesians 4:
25
Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth
with his neighbor, for we are members one of another. 26 Be angry and do not
sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and give no opportunity to the
devil. 28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest
work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone
in need.

Do you see a pattern here? He doesn't say (back up in verse 25), “Having put
away falsehood, good you checked that box. And now that you've merited grace
there, you've merited salvation. Good for you.” No, you live the right way, you put
away falsehood so that you can speak truth with your neighbor. Good works are
about blessing people—being usable to God within the believing community and
to a lost world.
26
Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and give
no opportunity to the devil.

Okay, you know what he doesn't say? “Well good, you checked off that box.
That’s more brownie points with God.” No, it's so that you don't become a tool of
the dark side. You should be a tool of Jesus.
28
Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with
his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in
need. 29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is
good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who
hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for
the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and
slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another,
tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

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So you can't do that if you're hanging on to the other things. Nowhere in the
passage is, “Do all these things now and get them down and make a list and
memorize it, put them in your on your iPhone or whatever. Make sure you chalk
these off every day because then God will love you, because then God will be
happy with you. God might give you the time of day.” No, you do these things to
bless others and to be useful to God. 2 Timothy 2… We'll just start in verse 20:
20
Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of
wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable. 21 Therefore, if
anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for
honorable use…

This is just a metaphor. Paul saying to believers, “Look, if you're living a certain
55:00 way, you're not going to be useful to God. You're not going to be a blessing to
people. But if you live righteously, you will do those things.”

21
Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a
vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the
house, ready for every good work. 22 So flee youthful passions and pursue
righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the
Lord from a pure heart.

Join the club here.

Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they
23

breed quarrels.

Holy cow. [laughs] That's a gut punch for our culture today, and I'm speaking
here of the believing community, not just the world.
23
Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they
breed quarrels. 24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to
everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25 correcting his
opponents with gentleness.

You know, I'll confess that I don't always do that. I have to remember this, too.

God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the

truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the
devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

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Why should we live a certain way? To serve others because that's what Jesus
did. To bless others because that's what Jesus did. To be useful to God because
that's what Jesus did. And the answer to your question of “why do we do works,”
It's discipleship. It's to be like Christ. It's not to earn God's favor. It's not to
supplement grace. It's not to put the cross over the hump. “Phew, the cross
would have failed without my good work.” No, no, it's none of those things. It's
none of those things. Our works also play a role.

Let me just add the next thought here before for my I get lost here. I mean, it's all
those things. Our works also play a role in turning other hearts to the gospel. I
mean that's kind of a subset of being useful to God, obviously. Works are also
about helping other people believe—showing them… making this faith that you're
talking about something they want—something they know that they need. And
also presenting your believing community as something that that they would want
to be a part of because you've blessed them. You’re a community this person
knows they can go to for help. They know that you're going to help.

I'm just thinking here about Spokane. I don’t know how many weeks ago it was
now, but we spent a whole hour talking about how Jesus related to people. Jesus
always told people the truth. When they were in sin, he didn't he didn't tell them
they weren't sinning; he told them the truth. But somehow he made it impossible
for them to conclude that he didn't care about them. That's really difficult, but
that's the model. That's the template. It really is worth something in our culture. I
mean, you hear all the time about how the younger generation doesn’t like the
church because they don't see authenticity. Well, the solution to that is not to lie
to them. It's not to tell them that their sin isn't sin. Somebody in their life should
have a high enough regard for them that they tell them the truth, but at the same
time they also make it impossible to conclude that you aren't in their corner, as
well. “Please don't destroy yourself with sin. If you do I will be here.” It's a really
difficult balance. And again, nobody's saying it's easy. Jesus is the template for
doing that because he told people the truth, but somehow they kept coming back.
The ones that seek him out are the ones who are leading the worst lives, and
he's telling them. He's not saying, “Go live it up. I'm endorsing your behavior.”
No, he tells them the truth, and we have very specific episodes about this—
people who were publicans and prostitutes and all. “They that are sick are the
ones that need the physician,” you know. Jesus says, “Well, the physician is
going to tell them what's wrong. But the physician's also going to have the
solution. The physician is also going to be there when they need help.” It's a
difficult balance, but he is the template for doing this. Just a couple of
examples… You have 1 Peter 1:10-12:
10
Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that
was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, 11 inquiring what person or
time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the
1:00:00 sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. 12 It was revealed to them

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Naked Bible Podcast Episode 213: Do Good Works Contribute to Salvation?

that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now
been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by
the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.

There’s some something to be said that you tell people what they need to hear
even if they don't want to hear it, because when you turn out to be right…
”Yes, what I was doing for five, ten, twenty years destroyed my life.” We have to
believe that God is going to… just like the prophets. Prophets are always telling
people what they don't want to hear, but they were right. And people are going to
remember who it was that actually told them the truth—who cared enough about
them to actually tell them the truth. And the idea isn't that when that person
comes to you later, you say "I was right, wasn't I?" No, that isn't what you do! You
bless them. Philippians 2:14-15:
14
Do all things without grumbling or disputing, 15 that you may be blameless and
innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and
twisted generation…

See, right there… Let's just stop there. Paul isn't saying, “Do all things without
grumbling or disputing that you can be perfect before God—that you can earn
salvation. God just isn’t going to have a gripe with you God's gonna have to let
you in.” No, he says:
14
Do all things… without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted
generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast to the
word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain
or labor in vain.

This is a personal note from Paul. Paul's not saying, “Do this so that you earn
brownie points with God.” He's saying that people need to see the light. They
need to see in your life in this crooked and twisted generation. They need to see
a little light in the darkness. And Paul's saying, “Look, if you do this, it's going to
make me feel good. It's going to make me feel that that my ministry meant
something.” And it's a brief, fleeting, very human thing for Paul to say. But it's
important: do these things to be light in a crooked and twisted generation. And if
you do, God will use that. Titus 2:7-8:
7
Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works…

Why? So that God loves me now? No:

7
Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your
teaching show integrity, dignity, 8 and sound speech that cannot be

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condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to

say about us.

The point of these verses is not so that you can win an argument. The point is
not, “Hey Titus, do this so that in the end you can win the argument. You'll be the
champion debater.” No, he's saying that right conduct will validate a true
message. People will judge the message by the conduct of the person giving the
message. If you live the right way, people will know that the speaker can be
trusted. And that, again, is being light in the darkness—in a crooked and twisted
generation.

So, you know, there are any number of examples that we could give here where
the way you live impacts how people think about your message. And, of course,
the answer to that isn't, “Well, okay, I won't tell anybody I'm a Christian. I'm not
gonna give anybody the gospel.” Well, you know, thanks for bailing on the Great
Commission. Thanks for ignoring that thing that Jesus said before he ascended
that might have been important—his parting words that might have been
important. [laughs] That’s not the answer.

Of course, the topic for our discussion here is “why do we do what we do?” Can
we do it to bless people? We do it to be useful to God. We do it so that hearts will
be turned. We do it so that we don't invalidate the gospel—that we don't
invalidate the message. Believe it or not, the way you live can turn people toward
or away from eternal life. It really can. “Well isn't God's sovereign? God can bring
somebody else along." Yes, he can. He can bring somebody else along. He can
he can do that. And God loves them, so he will. But see, now you've filed yourself
in the bucket… when Paul talks to the Corinthians about suffering loss at the
Judgment Seat of Christ. You may not care now. And it's not about being saved,
but you will care when you see what your life could have meant and could have
achieved in the big plan of God. That's what the Judgment Seat of Christ is
about. It's not about getting into heaven. It's about seeing the role that you could
have played and being rewarded for it. Even just knowing that the Lord is happy
1:05:00 with something you did. We've talked about this in Q&A’s before: everyone's
going to suffer loss. Everyone's going to see where they fell short, but Paul also
says that everyone who's at the Judgment Seat of Christ (those who are
believers)… Everyone will receive some reward. The issue is that there will be
some regret. You may not regret it now, but you'll regret it later, and it's not like
God's happy: “Yeah, God gets to put the screws to you one last time before we
have eternal life.” No, that's just twisted thinking. It's a motivation knowing that
God wants to use you. God has plans. Ephesians 2:10 says you were saved for
good works. God has plans for you, and for you to kind of blow it because you're
human and dumb (like we all are), that's one thing. But for you to just say, “I'm
just gonna make life easier for myself and not put myself in these situations
where I might have to say something about Jesus, or I might have to help
somebody. I might have to be Jesus to somebody. I'm going to try to avoid that.

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Naked Bible Podcast Episode 213: Do Good Works Contribute to Salvation?

I'm gonna eat Doritos here and sit on my couch all day long… “ That's just being
useless. Again, you may not care now, but you will care at some point. You'll
regret it, is what I'm trying to say. You'll regret it. The Lord will comfort you, but
you'll regret it. Nobody wants to deliberately heap regret on themselves. If you're
in that camp and you've got some sort of pathology.

Another thought here: our works are our representation of God—representation

of Christ. Again, works are directly related to imaging and representing God,
which in turn is directly related to being a follower/disciple of Christ. Christ is the
highest expression of imaging God. I want to go through these verses real quick
and then we'll hit one last question. 2 Corinthians 4:4… Think about this. When
you ask yourself or you hear somebody ask, “Well if works don't earn me
anything, why should I do them?” The short answer—the one-word answer—is:
discipleship. It's imitating Jesus. Then you can expand on bigger ideas, like that
God saved you actually to do something. He has something in mind for you, and
your works will either get in the way or facilitate that plan. Be like Jesus. Be a
blessing. Be useful. Be helpful. Honor God. The person who is seeking the
gospel seeking truth… They're going to see your life and be led toward it or away
from it. These are important things. But again, Jesus is the primary example.
Jesus does all these things perfectly. He attracted people to the truth. People
couldn't leave a conversation with him with the impression that he doesn't really
give a rip. He is the perfect example. So you have 2 Corinthians 4:4. Paul says:
4
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to
keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the
image of God.

He is the perfect representation—perfect representative. If you're familiar with

this podcast, you know about the concept of imaging: imaging God is
representing God. Romans 8:29:
29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the
image of his Son…

That's your destiny: to be conformed to the image of his son—being made more
like Christ. That's God's plan for you, ultimately. Colossians 3:10:
10
…put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image
of its creator.

There's that Imaging language again. 2 Corinthians 3:18:

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18
And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being
transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this
comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Again, this transformation into the image of God—the image of his son. 2
Corinthians 7:1:

Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every
defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of
God.

Now, notice he doesn't say, “Let's clean ourselves up from every defilement of
body and spirit in order to obtain the promises—in order to get eternal life.” He
doesn't say that. “Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse
ourselves.” And this is the motivation: bringing holiness to completion. We
progress toward being conformed to what Jesus is. 2 Timothy 2:19:
19
But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those
who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from
iniquity.”

In other words, let's have people see you and make that a positive reputation-
1:10:00 builder for Jesus. I think the reputation of Jesus has suffered a bit in our culture.
Honestly, it's because of Christians. In some cases, people are offended at our
theology—I get that. But there are any number of cases where we've given Jesus
a bad reputation, and by doing so we’ve given God a bad reputation by our
behavior. Behavior has nothing to do with God loving us. He already loves us
while we were yet sinners, while we were enemies. While we were the other—the
grocery list—God loved us. But it has a whole lot to do with what the lost think
about Christ. It has a whole lot to do with that.

One last question: Why are these concepts, which are so clear in scripture, such
a struggle for so many believers? I think there are several reasons.

This is no particular order, and part of this is I'm going to be speaking to pastors
here. This is just sort of right off the top my head here—right off the cuff. I think
that even though they're clear, some people don't know them well. Something
being clear in scripture and someone really knowing what scripture says are
often two different things. It really takes a concerted effort to grasp the content of
scripture. And this subject matter (the relation of faith and works) is like anything
else. That's the good part. Put a little more negatively, let me ask this question:
Do you know this subject matter—the relationship of good works to grace and
faith to salvation? Do you know that subject matter with as much thoroughness

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as you do other things? Another way of asking is: what are the things in Scripture
that you really invest time in? Do you really invest time in this theological issue?

I've met so many… I can't think of anybody directly because people who usually
come to my events aren't so invested in one particular thing. So I'm going to just
make a sweeping generalization. I know by experience… I know by internet stuff
and by going to different conferences and just lurking… I know what I'm going to
say here is going to hit home to somebody, and I hope it does. I’m not
apologizing for it. I hope that it does. Do you know this material as well as you
know things about prophecy? Being an expert in prophecy and being kind of
dumb when it comes to the role of the relationship of faith and works is not a
good thing. The relationship of faith and works is more important than prophecy.
Maybe it's demons. Maybe it's angels. Maybe it's… whatever. There are just a lot
of people who get absorbed in certain subjects and then they struggle and it
harms them in many ways. They struggle with the whole faith and works thing.
Can you defend your view of the rapture more readily than navigate the grace
and works issue? If that's the case, that's sad. If you know more about the ashes
of the red heifer or Gog and Magog than grace's superiority to the law, I pity you,
because there's just nothing more important than understanding the gospel with
clarity. "Well, yeah, a five-year-old can understand that and get saved, Mike.”
Have you been listening? Okay, have you been listening? There are Christians
everywhere—in your family in your church in your circle of friends—who can spit
the gospel back to you. They know the verses. But they struggle with shame and
guilt when they fail. Somehow the clarity of the gospel gets muddied in their
minds. They are influenced by their emotions, by their feelings, by their guilt. And
all of a sudden the clarity of the Gospel morphs into, “I better buck up so God
loves me.” That is a problem. And again, if you know all this arcane stuff that by
and large is a lot of speculation, let's be blunt about it… If you're a master of
those domains and you can't help somebody with this one, I not only pity you, I
pity them. It's just a misplaced priority.

Another thought here. Why do we have this problem? I would say that in some
cases we have preaching that is innocently misguided. I'm speaking to pastors
here. In other words, one job of a pastor is to be sort of like an Old Testament
prophet. Prophets were covenant enforcers. Prophets reminded people about
how they should be living. Pastors have that job, too. Pastors are to exhort the
flock to follow Jesus to live like him—to follow his example, all these things.
They're to exhort people to love God and love others—to be holy. Okay, that's
1:15:00 legitimate. But sometimes I'd say (maybe even, unfortunately, many times)
preachers fail to emphasize grace in equal measure when pointing out sin and
failure. Sometimes, unfortunately, people are left to wallow in shame and guilt
inside, which in turn makes them doubt that God loves them. Grace has to be
given the high status. It deserves the high status it has in the gospel message
and that it always will have in New Testament preaching.

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Pastors might say, “Well, that makes me uncomfortable. I'm almost kind of afraid
to do that because people will probably abuse it. They might think, ‘Well, it
doesn't matter how I live. I could just go do what I want.’” In other words, you'll be
like Paul. I've got news for you: if Paul had this problem, you're going to have this
problem, because Paul did. But knowing that this problem is out there—that
somebody out there is going to think badly, think poorly, and draw this
conclusion… Knowing that's the case is not permission to distort New Testament
theology by obscuring grace. It just isn't. It doesn't give you permission to do that.
You owe people the truth of the whole counsel of God. And I would say, pastors
have a tough job. We’ll add this to my list of why I couldn't be one, which is kind
of long, but I would also encourage pastors and not rebuke them, but encourage
them to stop presuming that the Spirit can't clean up a mess. Yep, people are
going to draw the wrong conclusion. They're going to do just what the people that
Paul had in mind when he said “shall we continue in sin that grace may
abound”… You're going to get those people. But the Spirit can clean up messes.
Stop presuming it's your preaching that sanctifies people. It's the Spirit of God
that sanctifies people. It's not your preaching. Your job is to tell people the truth
of scripture, not to turn people into what they ought to be. Only the Spirit of God
can do that and prompt people to make decisions about their behavior.

It’s part of sanctification. Sanctification is assisted when you tell people the truth
about how they should live. People need to hear that, but I think preachers can
get trapped into feeling like failures themselves and then they sort of go
overboard in one direction. They feel like failures when their people aren't godly.
That's understandable, but you’ve got to realize that a lot of that… If you're doing
the job and telling them the truth (telling them the things they need to hear), then
you need to leave the rest to the Lord. That's God's job That is not in your job
description. You've accomplished your job description. You have told people the
truth and that means telling them about their sin. It also means telling them about
the love of God—the grace of God. And in this case, showing them what
scripture says about why we should live holy lives—why Scripture does talk
about this a lot. And it's not about merit. It's about being useful, being a blessing,
so on and so forth—imitating Jesus.

Another one, and this is a little less innocent (and yes, I have experienced this in
life): sometimes you have pastors who intentionally guilt people and like it. I
mean, there are those people out there. Preaching about sin and about holiness
becomes a control mechanism. Pulpit manipulation, to be honest with you, isn't
that hard. It’s a skill that I've actually seen cultivated by people, and it's alarming.
It's one of those things that just makes my blood boil, but it's out there. People do
that. It's dishonest, actually. It smacks of sort of the caricature… I guess at the
time historically it wasn't a caricature, but it’s like medieval Catholicism holding
withholding the means of grace in that theology to move herds of people (or just
the important ones) to get them to do what you want. It's just manipulation. Non-
Catholics are just as guilty. If we go back in the Middle Ages or wherever it
happens (it can of course happen now)... But our culture has been sufficiently

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paganized that lots of people who are Catholic don't care what the church says
about most anything. So it doesn't happen that often. We on the on the
Protestant side—the Evangelical side—are actually better at this than that
situation, unfortunately. This is just wrong. It's just wrong to go the other direction
1:20:00 where you preach in a certain way to make people think that not only do they
have to do certain works so that God's happy with them, but they have to build
you up as the leader as the “Poo-bah in the pulpit,” that they have to serve you
so that God's happy with them. I've seen that and I've had plenty of
conversations with people around the country who've seen that, too. Being as
kind as I can, that's just dishonest. I mean, it's wicked when you come right down
to it. I would say this kind of manipulation is one reason why every person in the
pew needs a certain command of scripture. You have to hold the people in the
pulpit accountable. You just do. And if they are good people they'll appreciate
that. They'll know that that is a ministry to them because you're all there. You're
all equals. You're all images of God. You're all members of the body of Christ, so
on and so forth. People who are sincere about ministering to you, they will not
mind that your watchful eye… Again, if they know that you have their best
interest in mind. It works both ways… works two ways.

Last thought here. I would think that one of the reasons why people struggle
with… This is the fourth thing I'll throw it out. Again, these are in no particular
order, but just things I've experienced either myself or I've seen. I think one other
reason—the last reason—why people struggle with this even though scripture is
quite clear is that we assign more validity to our guilt than we do to God's grace.
Bottom line, that's what you're doing. If that's you, I want you to think about this in
a different way. If you know you're just like, “I just feel so guilty and I know God
loves me, but I just, if… I just keep coming back to my feelings.” What you're
doing is you're assigning more validity to your guilt than God's grace. And if that's
you, you have a problem with biblical authority. That might be a new way of
looking at it, but that's what we've got here. You've made yourself, your inner life,
or your feelings a higher authority than scripture. And what you need to do is
believe the truth more than you believe your feelings. To which one of those two
things are you assigning more worth? This is going to sound trite, but I actually
mean it. I think it'd be a good exercise to repeat Romans 5:8 to yourself every
day when you wake up, every night before you go to sleep, and throughout the
day. Make it a reflex thought: “While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
Your opinion of yourself is not superior to God's opinion of you. Let me repeat
that: your opinion of yourself is not superior to God's opinion of you. If you're
making your opinion superior, again, you have a problem with biblical authority.
God knew you while you were yet a sinner, while you were yet an enemy, and he
still loved you. So regardless of how you feel, that's true. So which of the two
things are you embracing? The only thing in the way of letting the truth rule in
your heart is you! You’ve got to get out of your own way, and it's an issue of
biblical authority. To which of those two things are you assigning more value—
your feelings or what God says?

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Now, to sum up, what I'm hoping people get out of this is that there are a lot of
good reasons to do good works. There are a lot of scriptural reasons do good
works—to live a holy life as a Christian. Earning God's love is not one of them.
God loved you while you were his enemy. His love cannot be earned, and it's
time to accept that and live accordingly. And when you fail—when you're
ashamed—remember he loved you, even when you weren't ashamed. He hasn't
changed and he never will.

TS: Mike, I think we've pretty much got salvation and good works wrapped up.
But can you speak about the different degrees of reward in heaven that is based
on our good deeds?

MH: Yeah. Boy, there you go. [laughs] That's another episode. Is that another
episode?

TS: Do you want to do full episode on that?

I'll mark it down. I mean if you want to give us a quick summary, if you can, and
we can put it down.

MH: Ultimately, that question is related to how we conceive about life in the new
creation, because it's going to involve… If we have the new creation, which
again—Heaven is really the new creation and that's what we're doing. We're
restored back to the Edenic state. There's lots of things to do and, by definition,
that requires different kinds of jobs—different kinds of duties. And I don't think
any of them will be onerous or burdensome because hey, it's Heaven. It's the
new Earth. Okay? It's everything as it should have been. So I tend to think that a
question like that—degrees of reward—is really about the kinds of tasks or things
that we do in the new Earth. And you could look on the other side and say, “Well,
1:25:00 who cares? I'm there! I'm gonna like it. Anyway, it's not going to be awful.” And
that's true. But there's going to be hierarchy there, just by definition. I think more
of the (if I can even use this this phrase)… More of the unfortunate side is
actually about the Judgment Seat. It's knowing what our failures were. But again,
that's going to yield to the wonder of what the new life is. So I don't know if there
might be an episode in that. I don't know, I'll have to think about it. But it's not that
some people get good jobs and other people are going to hate their jobs in Eden.
It's Eden, okay? It's going to be wonderful, no matter what. But I think that the
suffering loss issue is a big part of this. But once you get in there, it's true that
you're in, so I think if there's a negative part of this it's just knowing…
Not necessarily a point of dissatisfaction of what my eternal state is going to be.
It's just knowing that in this life, by virtue of the reward issue—the reward
ceremony, if you want to call it that… It's knowing that you disappointed the Lord
in some way. I think that's really what's at the heart of using that kind of reward
language for motivation.

TS: All right. Well, I'm going to mark that down, Mike, because I would love for
you to do a full episode.

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Naked Bible Podcast Episode 213: Do Good Works Contribute to Salvation?

MH: Yeah, we'll put some thought into it.

TS: Yeah that'd be great. All right. Well great. Hopefully we have an episode
down that people can refer to for reference. So hopefully we have an episode
now that's dedicated to that, where people can point to and share. Hopefully, if
there's somebody out there, like you said, that is struggling with this, they will
come across this episode, Mike, and hopefully have some peace.

MH: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think we've all been there at one point or the other. I
know I was at one particular point in my Christian life, a few years into it. Part of it
was my circumstance, but part of it, honestly, was I had to yield my feelings to
truth. I had to give up winning the argument, valuing my feelings more than what
God said.

TS: All right. Well, we hope all of our listeners share this episode and help our
fellow Christians out there who are struggling with this subject, since salvation is
the number one priority. Please, please, please, please, please share it and give
it to people who need it. And I just want to thank everybody for listening to the
Naked Bible Podcast! God bless.

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