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Discovering Diverse Content Through
Random Scribd Documents
 AFFIDAVIT OF WILLIAM KLINE
The following affidavit was executed by William Kline on July 31,
1964.

AFFIDAVIT
PRESIDENT’S COMMISSION
ON THE ASSASSINATION OF
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
State of Texas,
County of Webb, ss:
William Kline, being duly sworn, deposes and says that:
1. I am Assistant Agent in Charge, United States Customs,
Laredo, Texas.
2. Subsequent to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy,
I received many telephone inquiries from news reporters from
various parts of the United States.
3. I do not recall being interviewed by Harold Feldman who I am
informed represented the New York Post, nor do I recall being
interviewed by any person identifying himself as being employed by
the “Nation Magazine.”
4. With respect to Lee Harvey Oswald, I have no personal
knowledge whatsoever of any check made on him by the United
States Public Health Service, Laredo, Texas, either upon his entry
into or exit from Mexico in 1963.
 5. I have no personal knowledge whatsoever that any agency of
the United States Government maintained a surveillance of Oswald’s
movements, and I have never indicated to the contrary to any news
reporters.
Signed this 31st day of July 1964.
(S) William Kline,
William Kline.
 AFFIDAVIT OF ORAN PUGH
The following affidavit was executed by Oran Pugh on August
26, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT
PRESIDENT’S COMMISSION
ON THE ASSASSINATION OF
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
State of Texas,
County of Webb, ss:
Oran Pugh, being duly sworn, deposes and says that:
1. I am Agent in Charge, United States Customs, Laredo, Texas.
2. Subsequent to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy,
I received many telephone inquiries from news reporters from
various parts of the United States.
3. I do not recall being interviewed by Harold Feldman who I am
informed represented the New York Post, nor do I recall being
interviewed by any person identifying himself as being employed by
the “Nation Magazine.”
4. In any event, all information supplied by me to news reporters
was not based upon my personal knowledge; rather, all such
information was supplied to me by my assistant, William Kline.
5. I recall having advised news reporters of the following
information:
 (a) United States citizens are not required to register or check-in
with the Immigration and Naturalization Service either on entry to or
exit from Mexico.
(b) Lee Harvey Oswald checked into the United States Public
Health Service, International Bridge, Laredo, Texas, upon his re-
entry into the United States in October 1963.
(c) The Immigration and Naturalization Service does not
presently have, nor has it ever maintained a file containing
information concerning Oswald’s trip to Mexico in 1963.
(d) The Immigration and Naturalization Service maintained a file
with respect to Oswald’s visit to the Union of Soviet Socialist
Republics, and his return to the United States together with his wife
and child.
Signed this 26th day of August 1964.
(S) Oran Pugh,
Oran Pugh.
 AFFIDAVIT OF J. E. CURRY
The following affidavit was executed by J. E. Curry on August 10,
1964.

AFFIDAVIT
PRESIDENT’S COMMISSION
ON THE ASSASSINATION OF
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
State of Texas,
County of Dallas, ss:
Before me Eunice Sorrells, a notary public in and for said County,
State of Texas, on this day personally appeared J. E. Curry, chief of
police, Dallas Police Department, who, after being by me duly sworn,
on oath deposes and says:
This affidavit is prepared in response to a letter of August 5,
1964, from J. Lee Rankin, General Counsel of the President’s
Commission on the assassination of President Kennedy.
Mr. Rankin pointed out in his letter that on page 175 of my
testimony before the Commission in response to a question by
Representative Ford, I stated that during a showup of Lee Harvey
Oswald a witness to whom Oswald was shown did not identify him
as the person who killed Officer J. D. Tippit.
On page 176 in response to questions by Mr. Rankin I stated
that Mrs. Markham did identify Oswald as the man who killed Officer
Tippit.
 The answer shown to the question posed by Representative Ford
that Mrs. Markham did not identify Oswald—is in error. The first time
Mrs. Markham was shown Oswald, she positively identified him as
the slayer of the officer.
Signed this 10th day of August 1964.
(S) J. E. Curry,
J. E. Curry.
TESTIMONY OF BRUCE RAY CARLIN
The testimony of Bruce Ray Carlin was taken at 12:35 p.m., on
August 24, 1964, at the Federal Building, Fort Worth, Tex., by Mr.
Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.

Mr. Hubert. This is the deposition of Bruce Carlin.

Mr. Carlin, my name is Leon Hubert. I am a member of the
advisory staff of the general counsel of the President’s Commission
on the Assassination of President Kennedy. Under the provisions of
Executive Order 11130 dated November 29, 1963 and the joint
resolution of Congress, No. 137, and the rules of procedure adopted
by the Commission in conformance with that Executive order and
that joint resolution, I have been authorized to take this sworn
deposition from you.
I state to you that the general nature of the Commission’s
inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relative to
the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent
death of Lee Harvey Oswald.
In particular, as to you, Mr. Carlin, the nature of the inquiry
today is to determine what facts you know about the death of
Oswald and any other pertinent facts you may know about the
general inquiry and about Jack Ruby and his operations and
movements and so forth.
I understand that a letter was written to you by Mr. J. Lee
Rankin, general counsel of the President’s Commission, which
however was not delivered because I don’t think they had the right
address. That means of course that you have not had written notice
of the taking of this deposition and under the rules adopted by the
Commission, every witness is entitled to a 3-day written notice
before his deposition can be taken, but those rules also provide that
that 3-day written notice can be waived if a witness wishes to waive
it, and I ask you now, since you have not received the letter,
whether you are willing to waive the notice and go ahead and testify
now without the notice?
Mr. Carlin. Yes; I am.
Mr. Hubert. All right, will you rise then so I may administer the
oath.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you’re about to give at this
time will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God?
Mr. Carlin. I do.
Mr. Hubert. Will you please state your full name, sir?
Mr. Carlin. Bruce Ray Carlin.
Mr. Hubert. What is your address, Mr. Carlin?
Mr. Carlin. 1054 West Allen.
Mr. Hubert. Fort Worth?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. What is your occupation now, sir?
Mr. Carlin. I am a salesman.
Mr. Hubert. Do you work for a company?
Mr. Carlin. I am contracting on my own in the aluminum
business; screens.
Mr. Hubert. You are self-employed then, is that right?
Mr. Carlin. You can call it that, what employment that I have.
 Mr. Hubert. What company do you sell for?
Mr. Carlin. Various companies—whichever one makes me the
best deal on the aluminum screens that I sell—Southwest, New
Aluminum, Webb Aluminum.
Mr. Hubert. How long have you been so occupied?
Mr. Carlin. About 3 weeks.
Mr. Hubert. What was your employment prior to that?
Mr. Carlin. Part of the time I worked for the Motel Drug Service.
Other than that, I haven’t been working.
Mr. Hubert. Motel what?
Mr. Carlin. Motel Drug Service.
Mr. Hubert. What is that?
Mr. Carlin. We supply sundries to the lobbies of motels for
traveling people.
Mr. Hubert. Were you in Houston on November 21, 1963, that’s
the day before the President was shot?
Mr. Carlin. I know I was traveling—the day the President was
shot, I was in Louisiana. The day before—I have some newspapers
that I got from Houston—I do not know the exact date.
Mr. Hubert. What were you doing in Houston?
Mr. Carlin. We were servicing motels. We were servicing motels
with drugs for the motels.
Mr. Hubert. Who was your specific employer there?
Mr. Carlin. Jerry Bunker.
Mr. Hubert. Where is he located?
Mr. Carlin. He lives here in Fort Worth.
Mr. Hubert. Do you know where?
 Mr. Carlin. Yes, I don’t know the name of the street but he did
live at Ridgemar Plaza.
Mr. Hubert. Did he have an office there?
Mr. Carlin. He uses his apartment as his office.
Mr. Hubert. You “serviced”, you say, various motels?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. Under his direction?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. You actually brought the products there?
Mr. Carlin. Yes—well, my primary purpose was to sell the
accounts. Of course, I did help him service them.
Mr. Hubert. Did you have an automobile or a truck?
Mr. Carlin. A station wagon.
Mr. Hubert. And you carried these sundries around?
Mr. Carlin. With us; yes.
Mr. Hubert. And whatever outfit the motel needed, you sold that
to them?
Mr. Carlin. That’s right and of course we would put in these
cabinets, 5 by 5, in the lobby of the motel and stock it with razor
blades or hair spray and headache remedies—all these things that
people traveling would need.
Mr. Hubert. You say “we”, who was involved?
Mr. Carlin. Mr. Bunker; Jerry.
Mr. Hubert. Did you travel together?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. So that he was with you on November 21?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
 Mr. Hubert. And on November 22?
Mr. Carlin. Yes; on any out-of-town trip I’ve ever been on, he’s
been with me.
Mr. Hubert. Do you specifically recall that you were in Houston on
the day before the President was shot?
Mr. Carlin. I’m trying to recall whether it was the day before. I
know I was there a day or so before. I don’t know if it was the exact
day before.
Mr. Hubert. You said you were in Louisiana on the day the
President was shot?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. What part of Louisiana?
Mr. Carlin. We were in New Orleans at a large motel and I don’t
remember the name. We did not sell that particular account, but we
were there in the process of selling the account when we got the
news that he had been shot and we walked from there into a club
that they have in the motel and watched it on TV.
Mr. Hubert. Did you continue your selling tour then?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. Had you been to New Orleans prior to the 22d, that
is to say, immediately prior?
Mr. Carlin. We were there, I believe, the day before, part of the
day before or maybe this was—what I’m thinking is that we drove all
night from Houston to New Orleans. Now, this is just like walking
across the street last week—you don’t remember or you don’t know
that you’re going to have to remember.
Mr. Hubert. But you do remember you were in New Orleans when
the President was shot?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
 Mr. Hubert. And that was the first day you had been in New
Orleans?
Mr. Carlin. I believe so.
Mr. Hubert. And that you had driven all night to arrive in New
Orleans on that day?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. And furthermore, I think you said that you had driven
from Houston?
Mr. Carlin. That’s correct.
Mr. Hubert. That would have put you then in Houston on the
21st?
Mr. Carlin. That’s correct.
Mr. Hubert. Now, you say you were there for the purpose of
servicing certain motels?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. Do you remember which ones you serviced?
Mr. Carlin. In Houston?
Mr. Hubert. Yes.
Mr. Carlin. The Vagabond—a very large one downtown—I think
The Carriage House, and then a number of smaller ones—five or six
smaller motels, which the names of them I don’t recall, but that’s
still not the biggest one—the biggest account down there, and I
can’t think of it. It’s downtown.
Mr. Hubert. How long were you in Houston altogether?
Mr. Carlin. Again, I cannot be sure. I would say a day.
Mr. Hubert. You think you were there only for the 21st or possibly
the 20th too?
 Mr. Carlin. It could have been the 20th also. I’m not sure—I can’t
remember the dates as to when I left or where I was at the time,
but I do know I was in Houston before the President was killed and I
do know I was in New Orleans the day he was killed, but the exact
date, I do not know.
Mr. Hubert. When did you start that tour from Dallas?
Mr. Carlin. This—again—as far as the date, I cannot say either.
Mr. Hubert. Did you go to any other places—you started in Dallas,
didn’t you?
Mr. Carlin. I think we did. I think we went to Dallas to pick up
the drugs—again—we went different ways. Sometimes we would go
to Waco and Austin and then to Houston and sometimes we go from
Dallas—the other highway straight down to Houston.
Mr. Hubert. Had you been out several days?
Mr. Carlin. Yes; as far as the date that I left or the date that I
was in a certain town, I cannot say—again.
Mr. Hubert. Well, what places did you service in New Orleans?
Mr. Carlin. Actually—I can take you to them but remembering
the names—it seems as though it was The Caravan and then there
was one particular one we were trying to sell to which we went back
about three times and it was right across from the airport on Airline
Road.
Mr. Hubert. The Hilton Inn?
Mr. Carlin. Sir?
Mr. Hubert. Was it The Hilton Inn?
Mr. Carlin. Yes; I believe it was.
Mr. Hubert. How long did you stay in New Orleans?
Mr. Carlin. Again—a day and a half or 2 days. When we took
these trips, it was a mad trip—we worked all day and would drive all
night.
 Mr. Hubert. Did you stay at any place in New Orleans?
Mr. Carlin. Yes; at the Sugar Bowl.
Mr. Hubert. The Sugar Bowl Motel?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. When did you leave it?
Mr. Carlin. We stayed all night there and we left the next day
after making a number of calls, we left the next day.
Mr. Hubert. Do you remember about what time you left?
Mr. Carlin. No; I don’t. It seems as though, and you probably
know better than I do—the President was killed on the day that we
left. It seems as though it was this way, but I’m not sure, but
probably if I had time to think it out and talk to Mr. Bunker, I could
tell more specifically. I know he does have the dates that each
account was serviced.
Mr. Hubert. It’s your thought that you possibly spent the night of
the 21st at the Sugar Bowl Motel in New Orleans or the night of the
day the President was shot, in that motel?
Mr. Carlin. I don’t recall. I know we spent a night in New
Orleans. I know I was there and it was raining at the time the
President was killed, and I know it was in the afternoon. As far as
the specific date, I do not know.
Mr. Hubert. But did you spend the night in New Orleans after the
President was killed or before? Was it the night before or the night
of the shooting that you spent the night?
Mr. Carlin. I think—I am not definitely sure, but I think the day
he was killed—that night we spent in New Orleans.
Mr. Hubert. And the night before you drove up from Houston?
Mr. Carlin. It seems like the night before we drove up and we
checked into a motel and we changed clothes and went to work.
 Mr. Hubert. Do you remember when you were in Houston that
the President visited there, would that help your memory any?
Mr. Carlin. That the President visited in Houston?
Mr. Hubert. That the President visited in Houston.
Mr. Carlin. At the time that I was in Houston I don’t recall him
visiting there; no. He may have, but I don’t recall it now.
Mr. Hubert. Where did you go from New Orleans?
Mr. Carlin. We drove back. I think we came through East Texas—
we drove around—no, we couldn’t have gone through East Texas,
could we?
Mr. Hubert. Well, did you stop any place outside of New Orleans?
Mr. Carlin. Other than to eat, I don’t believe so.
Mr. Hubert. Do you remember what time you got to Dallas?
Mr. Carlin. I don’t think we came to Dallas, or did we—I really
don’t know. Oh, wait a minute—it seems that we came to Dallas to
pick Mitzi up.
Mr. Hubert. To pick who up?
Mr. Carlin. Karen—I’m sorry.
Mr. Hubert. That would have been a Saturday night then?
Mr. Carlin. Well.
Mr. Hubert. It was the day after the President was shot?
Mr. Carlin. We have taken so many trips and they were all so
wild—I had no idea we would have to remember dates, times, or
places.
Mr. Hubert. But it was the day after the President was shot that
you got back to Dallas or Fort Worth?
Mr. Carlin. I believe so.
Mr. Hubert. Do you remember about what time it was?
 Mr. Carlin. No; I do not. I can’t even remember the
circumstances under which we came back on—why we came back
quickly—except that we always make every trip in a hurry.
Mr. Hubert. Well, you recall that it was on Saturday the 23rd of
November, that you came to Dallas from Fort Worth with your wife,
Karen?
Mr. Carlin. I don’t recall the date or which circumstances or what
reason that I come to Dallas. Now, can you tell me what you’re
talking about specifically?
Mr. Hubert. Do you recall that there was a question as to whether
or not your wife Karen would be working at the Carousel that night?
Mr. Carlin. I do recall it, but I do not know the date. I know one
night we went over to see if she was going to work; yes.
Mr. Hubert. And I think from your previous deposition you fixed
the time of that?
Mr. Carlin. Over quite a bit of thinking, but as far as positively—
as I told Mr. Conkle—we cannot remember dates or times, especially
this far back. We had no idea we would have to remember them.
Mr. Hubert. But that was the same night you came back or
arrived back in Fort Worth from this trip to New Orleans—from New
Orleans?
Mr. Carlin. The night we went to see if she was going to work
after Kennedy was killed?
Mr. Hubert. Yes.
Mr. Carlin. No; I don’t think so—let me see—no; I don’t believe it
was.
Mr. Hubert. Well, now you remember that Ruby shot Oswald on
Sunday the 24th?
Mr. Carlin. I know I was home on that day.
 Mr. Hubert. All right. Now, the night before that, you and your
wife had come to Dallas and you had called Ruby and as a matter of
fact, made an arrangement to borrow $5 from him?
Mr. Carlin. That’s correct.
Mr. Hubert. Now, was it on that day that you had driven from
New Orleans to Fort Worth?
Mr. Carlin. It seems as though it would be, but I cannot say
definitely whether it was or not. I really don’t remember whether
that was the day.
Mr. Hubert. Well, do you remember that you left Fort Worth to
come to Dallas only a short time after having arrived back from this
trip?
Mr. Carlin. As far as my trip to Houston and New Orleans and
back in relation with Ruby and the time he killed Oswald, had
anyone not said something to remind me of the two, I would never
put them anywhere near each other, but I guess after talking to you
—I guess they were near to each other, but I cannot say the exact
times that I left and what times I was in and at what time or the
exact time I came back. I do know it was very near there.
Mr. Hubert. Well, first of all, let’s fix it this way—that you were
definitely in New Orleans the day the President was shot?
Mr. Carlin. Definitely so. This is the only thing I know definitely—
that I can definitely say.
Mr. Hubert. Would it be possible that you drove back from New
Orleans to Dallas on that day?
Mr. Carlin. Yes; it’s definitely possible, but as far as knowing for
sure whether I did or not, I cannot say.
Mr. Hubert. Did you drive back from New Orleans to Fort Worth
by day or by night?
Mr. Carlin. I believe at night, but again, we’ve made many of
these trips to the same places, stay in the same places, and calling
on the same accounts.
Mr. Hubert. Well, what I was trying to get at was whether or not
you would remember this rather long trip from New Orleans to
Dallas and on to Fort Worth, followed up by a trip with your wife
back to Dallas on the night you borrowed the $5 and whether all
that occurred on the same day, or do you recall what that day was?
Mr. Carlin. Well, I understand what you’re getting at, but as far
as saying whether it came on the same day, I can’t recall. By the
way, the account I was trying to think of in Houston is The
Tidelands, if this means anything. I know that we were depressed as
far as the President being killed and I remember making the
statement I didn’t feel much like working, but on the other hand, I
don’t recall whether we left just after finding out that the President
was killed, and drove back then, or we might have started during the
daytime and drove back in there early in the morning and then going
to bed and getting up the next day and driving to Dallas. I’m saying
I don’t recall whether this was the way it was or not.
Mr. Hubert. Do you otherwise remember what you did on
Saturday the 23d, the day after the President was shot?
Mr. Carlin. No; I do not. I don’t even remember where I was at
that time.
Mr. Hubert. Well, we do know that you were in Fort Worth, at
least in the evening?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. Because you came back to Dallas with your wife?
Mr. Carlin. Definitely so; yes.
Mr. Hubert. Does that refresh your memory as to whether you
had been at home all day on Saturday?
Mr. Carlin. I’m sorry—it doesn’t. I’m not evading anything, I just
cannot remember the specific time of what I was doing. I know as
far as the incident of going to Dallas and I know what I did when I
went to New Orleans and Houston, but as far as the particular date
that you’re thinking of now—I can’t recall what I did.
Mr. Hubert. Well, the records of the Sugar Bowl Motel would
show the night you were there, wouldn’t it?
Mr. Carlin. Definitely so.
Mr. Hubert. And it would have been the next day that you drove
back?
Mr. Carlin. I feel sure.
Mr. Hubert. So—no, it was not necessarily the next day—you
think it might have been the next day that you drove back to Dallas
or Fort Worth?
Mr. Carlin. Now, we have at times worked New Orleans first and
come back through Houston. I don’t think we did at this particular
time, but again, we’ve made these trips a number of times, and both
of us being very tired at all times and not even caring what time it
was or where we were, we were trying to get the work done and get
back.
Mr. Hubert. But you were in New Orleans at the time you heard
the news about the shooting of the President?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. And you say you were at some particular place?
Mr. Carlin. Yes; I was in a large motel.
Mr. Hubert. Do you remember the name of that one?
Mr. Carlin. It was on the same highway that the Hilton Inn is on
but downtown, down near town. It was right on the—it’s near the
Thunderbird Motel, but it’s not the Thunderbird Motel.
Mr. Hubert. The Tamanaca?
Mr. Carlin. Sir?
Mr. Hubert. The Tamanaca?
 Mr. Carlin. I know The Tamanaca is right in there but I don’t
recall if that’s the one. It’s a very large motel, very nice, and the
restaurant sits right on the street.
Mr. Hubert. Could it be Motel DeVille?
Mr. Carlin. Yes; I believe so—I believe that is it. At the time of
hearing that the President was assassinated, I was in the manager’s
office and he was busy, and we left there and walked right around
the corner to a private club, which the doors were open and the TV
was on, and we sat and watched the news report.
Mr. Hubert. Do you recall what you did after and how long you
stayed there, and what you did after you left that place?
Mr. Carlin. No; not exactly. We possibly could have left right after
that for Fort Worth, or we might have spent the night and left the
next morning. As far as saying specifically, I do not know. There
have been times when I would come in from a trip and get to Dallas
in time to pick Karen up, and there have been times I have come in
at 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning—sometimes even daylight.
Mr. Hubert. Do you remember how you traveled from Fort Worth
to Dallas, that is, the night of the 23d?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. Where did you go? How did you go?
Mr. Carlin. You mean—was I in a car?
Mr. Hubert. Yes.
Mr. Carlin. Tammi True brought us.
Mr. Hubert. She brought you from Fort Worth to Dallas?
Mr. Carlin. Yes.
Mr. Hubert. What was the purpose of coming in?
Mr. Carlin. Karen didn’t know if she had to go to work or not,
and I believe—I’m not sure of this, but it seems as though Jack Ruby
owed Tammi some money or something and she was going to
change jobs and she wanted the money.
Mr. Hubert. Where did you go when you got there?
Mr. Carlin. We went to the club first and parked at the parking
lot between the Colony and Carousel.
Mr. Hubert. That’s Nichols Garage, isn’t it?
Mr. Carlin. Yes. The door was locked, so we went to the Colony.
Mr. Hubert. Did you have anything to drink then?
Mr. Carlin. Did I have anything to drink?
Mr. Hubert. Yes.
Mr. Carlin. I don’t recall. I know that we were practically broke,
just some change is all we had, so I don’t know whether we had
anything to drink or not.
Mr. Hubert. You don’t recall that at all?
Mr. Carlin. No. I know for sure that at least Karen drank a coke
and possibly I did—I don’t know if I had any alcohol at the time or
not.
Mr. Hubert. But whatever you did have, you paid for it?
Mr. Carlin. Again, I don’t recall—Karen had some change in her
pocket, in her purse.
Mr. Hubert. Well, it would have been either you or Karen?
Mr. Carlin. I believe so—I’m not sure. At times we never paid for
anything when we went in the club. He just gave us a drink.
Mr. Hubert. Did you know a man by the name of Larry Crafard?
Mr. Carlin. Crafard?
Mr. Hubert. Who worked at the Carousel?
Mr. Carlin. There was a man by the name of Larry—I don’t know
his last name.
 Mr. Hubert. Did you have occasion to call him on Friday night, the
22d, the night the President was shot?
Mr. Carlin. The night the President was shot?
Mr. Hubert. Yes.
Mr. Carlin. No.
Mr. Hubert. Did you have occasion to talk to him on the night
before the President was shot?
Mr. Carlin. I don’t think I was in town the night before he was
shot.
Mr. Hubert. No; this would have been a long distance call?
Mr. Carlin. No. While I was in Houston, I believe I called Karen—
I don’t know if it was this particular trip or not, but I did notice some
receipts from the telephone company that I had that there was a call
from Houston to Dallas charged to my phone. The reason I know
this is so because I turned the receipts over to my CPA the other day
and he was asking which calls were business and which ones were
not and I had to mark them off.
Mr. Hubert. Well, do you recall a call received by you at The
Vagabond Motel in Houston at 4:38 on the morning of the 21st, and
that would have been Thursday?
Mr. Carlin. I remember I was called that morning; yes.
Mr. Hubert. Who called you, do you remember?
Mr. Carlin. I believe Karen called me.
Mr. Hubert. And do you remember a phone call at 7:30 that same
night, that’s the night prior to the shooting of the President? That’s
on Thursday night—that you called the Carousel Club and spoke for
approximately 3 minutes to a person named Larry?
Mr. Carlin. No; definitely not.
Mr. Hubert. You did not make any such call on the telephone the
night before the President was killed?
 Mr. Carlin. I don’t know if I made a call. If I did, it was not to
Larry. Now, I called at various times and trips and I do not know
whether it was this one—this particular time, but I do remember
calling and asking for Karen and having to wait a length of time for
her to come to the phone, but as far as talking to anyone in
conversation, I don’t know even who answered the phone. I can’t
even say if it was that particular time that I called. I do know I have
called and Andrew answered the phone, and he’s the one I thought
answered it, but I don’t know exactly when it was that I called.
Mr. Hubert. But you can be quite certain, I believe from what you
have testified, that you did not visit the Carousel Club on the night
the President was shot, that is, Friday night?
Mr. Carlin. Not unless we drove back and got back in time to pick
Karen up, but I don’t think we did.
Mr. Hubert. Do you remember going to pick her up?
Mr. Carlin. I remember a number of times coming back from a
trip and picking her up.
Mr. Hubert. No; I mean then.
Mr. Carlin. No; I do not remember picking her up that night.
Mr. Hubert. Do you remember when you first talked to her about
the President’s death?
Mr. Carlin. No; I don’t recall the first time I mentioned it to her—
probably as soon as I came home.
Mr. Hubert. Do you remember what time that was?
Mr. Carlin. No; I don’t. It would depend on what time we left
from New Orleans. I could guess, if I knew what time I left New
Orleans.
Mr. Hubert. Is it your thought that you left New Orleans shortly
after checking out of the Sugar Bowl?
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