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Great Debate

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Great Debate

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michaelmaster610
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Michael Stump

161-64-3289

9-12-00

The “Great Debate,” as held by Heber Curtis and Harlow Shapley in 1920

(though misstated by some to have occurred the following year) centered around

perhaps one of the most important questions that can be posed in the field of

cosmology—the distance scale of the universe. The size of the universe would

hold a direct relation on our place in the universe, the age of the universe, and

theories of how the universe came to be in the first place.

Curtis and Shapley both came from professional backgrounds.

Harlow Shapley worked at the Mount Wilson Solar Observatory under William

Ellery Hale I, the founder of the observatory. Heber Curtis was employed at the

Lick Observatory, also in California. Curtis had been doing astronomy

professionally for eighteen years, after having taught classical languages. Curtis,

however, had only six years of experience at Lick. Of the two, Shapley is the one

that apparently had a longer interest in astronomy, however. His first degree was

in astronomy, granted from the University of Missouri. Shapley’s later Ph.D. was

conferred upon him from Princeton—not an easy task to accomplish! Curtis,

thirteen years Shapley’s senior, studied the classics at the University of

Michigan.

“The Great Debate” is a bit of a misnomer. Before the meeting at which

the discussion was held, Curtis and Shapley communicated their positions to
each other, and mutually agreed that they would give their own individual

presentations, responding to each others’ points within said presentations. Later,

at a commemorative event, participants opted for an actual debate format.

Many soon-to-be prominent scientists of many fields were present at this

meeting, the most notable of which are Millikan and Robert Goddard. Talks on

numerous topics that would later prove to be primitive or profound were given.

Curtis, who was known to vehemently disagree with Einstein’s theories

and to be just a general eccentric, spent most of his time at the Lick Observatory

photographing spiral nebulae, which is what brought him to this “debate” in the

first place.

The size of the galaxy had been undergoing constant updating from the

time of Herschel until (and beyond) the Great Debate. The most recent

development previous to the Debate was Arthur Eddington’s estimate of the

Sun’s position at sixty light years above the galactic plane, presumably assuming

a spiral-shaped galaxy as proposed earlier by Cornelius Easton.

Shapley’s universe was estimated at little larger than his galaxy, which he

estimated to be greater than sixty kiloparsecs in diameter. Shapley supported the

idea that the Sun was not at the center of the galaxy, but purported that spiral

galaxies were a part of our Milky Way, and that the Milky Way as seen in the

night sky was a conglomerate of spiral galaxies, much like the Coma-Virgo cloud

of galaxies. Curtis’s galaxy was only ten kiloparsecs in diameter, with the Sun at

three kiloparsecs from galactic center. In this case, Shapley was more accurate,

as his size more closely approximates the actual size of the galaxy.
Shapley and Curtis disagreed on quite a few issues, aside from the size

and shape of the galaxy as well. Shapley believed that RR Lyrae type Cepheid

variables should not be used as distance indicators, but other types of Cepheids

are valid for that purpose. Curtis didn’t believe that any Cepheids were reliable

for distance approximations, and that “more data are needed.” Today, Shapley

would have been applauded. Cepheids of all types are used as distance

indicators, quite confidently.

Similarly, for distance measurements, Shapley trusted spectroscopic

parallaxes. Curtis would not trust any parallax that would indicate a distance

greater than 100 parsecs. Again, Shapley would be considered correct.

A large velocity was observed for spiral nebulae. Both participants in the

discussion had an opinion on the reason for this. Shapley proposed a radiation

pressure repulsion from the Milky Way that would push away these nebulae.

Curtis thought that perhaps these were just intrinsic qualities of the nebulae, and

that beyond that he put on no pretenses of knowing the nature of the velocities.

Here, we would have to credit Curtis with the victory, since it took the combined

efforts of a number of great physicists and astronomers to determine the

expanding nature of the universe.

Curtis noted that spiral nebulae have colors and line spectra similar to

those of star clusters. He thus postulated that these spiral nebulae were large

assemblages of stars. Shapley had no view on this matter. Score another point

for Curtis.
Judging on only the points that I’ve enumerated here (and there are

more), it would appear that both sides made reasonable and accurate points, but

Shapley possessed more points that were later found to be accurate. I would

declare Shapley to be the winner of this debate, but I think the true winner of the

discussion is the scientific community, as one of the best things that can happen

in the scientific field occurred that day—a free exchange of ideas, with eyes on

the available data.

Trimbley, V. 1995, PASP, 107, 1133

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