Ivanhoff Interview –

www.bettersystemtrader.com

Protect and Grow Capital during Corrections with Ivanhoff

Episode 88

Andrew: Hi, Ivan! Thanks for coming on the show today. It’s really great to have you here, so welcome!
Ivan: Hey, thanks for having me, Andrew.
Andrew: I’m really excited to be speaking with you today because I think the topic that we’ll be
discussing is a very important one, and it could be very timely but first before we get into that,
how about we start with a little bit of your trading background. Can you share with us the story
of you got into trading?
Ivan: Yeah, sure. I was born in Bulgaria, so naturally my first trading experience was trading in the
local market, I got involved a little bit after high school, I bought a couple of stocks because at
the time, most emerging markets and the markets in Eastern Europe were pretty hot because
of foreign capital entering those markets, and you can find a lot of information in the local press
about the stock market, so I got interested. I invested a little bit of money that I had in 2 stocks,
and 1 of them doubled, the other one up 50 percent in 3 months, and I made a little bit of
money.
After that, I moved to the States to study and I started to read more about the stock market,
and I opened an account in the US in 2005, with just $2,000, so I started super small. I sure
remember ironically my first trade was an options trade. I bought some [unintelligible 0:01:44]
calls in Dell and I lost like 50 percent, 60 percent on my first trade. I had no methods, no system
at the time. I had no idea what I was doing. I was just reading everything I can find on the stock
market and just learning by making mistakes I guess.
The first couple of years were pretty rough while I was learning; luckily I was trading with a
small capital, so that’s how you learn best when you don't have a lot of money at risk. The first
profitable sell that I encountered was it’s called post-earnings announcement drift. I started
reading about it. There was a whole book, I don’t remember the name now, that explained how
stocks tend to continue in the same direction after their earnings gap. For example, when the
stock beats earnings expectations by a large margin, and on the next day, it gaps up, which
means the market is reacting favourably to that new piece of information. That stock tends to
continue in the same direction for 2 to 12 weeks after that, so I started gradually taking those
types of trades and I started making money.
I’m using this approach even to these days. I mean of course nowadays I’ve also adopted some
other ways to trade, but this has been pretty much the first profitable approach that I found.

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Andrew: Okay, so if we fast forward to today, can you just give us just a little bit more information about
the markets that you trade and I guess the particular styles that you use when you’re trading?
Ivan: Well, my styles differ depending on the market because the market changes all the time and
different styles, different setups work in different markets. For example, in a raging bullish
market, I like to be along recent IPOs because of their small float and favourable supply-
demand dynamics. They tend to move a lot in a short period of time. It’s not unusual to have a
recent IPO that will move 50 percent in a month in a raging bull market especially if it belongs
to a hot industry.
I also like to trade high-volume range expansions, high-volume breakouts because if you look at
the best-performing stocks over a 1-month to 12-month horizon, you will notice that one of the
things they have in common is that at the beginning of their move, they start with a huge
volume expansion like I’m talking 10 times, 20 times their average daily volume, so there is a
volume expansion and a price expansion and that usually kick starts a big move especially if
there is a real earnings-related news behind the move.
In range-bound markets that are choppier like we are currently in such a market, I tend to trade
less. I use a smaller position size. I sometimes dabble into intraday trades and that’s true
especially during market corrections when volatility jumps and we see huge intraday moves.
Then in that environment, I would sometimes trade intraday.
Basically, I would qualify myself as a swing trader, someone who is looking for short-term
moves that last anywhere between 2 to 20 trading days, and then depending on the market,
I’m using difference there as I mentioned, I’m still looking for stocks that react favourably to
their latest earnings or sometimes short stocks that keep negative market reaction but that’s
more rare.
I pay special attention to industry-relative strength because if you’re in the right industry like
that takes care of obviously if you’re in the right industry, we realize that risk management is a
lot easier because stocks tend to move in groups and when you figure out what industry is
currently hot as semiconductors have been super hot since last summer up until last week, it’s a
lot easier and you focus your attention to that hot industry, it’s a lot easier to manage risk.
Andrew: Okay, cool. All right, well thank you very much for that background, Ivan. Now as I mentioned
earlier, I am pretty excited to be speaking with you today because I just finished reading a book
actually probably a few weeks ago now, but it was a book that you published and it was called
Crash: How to Protect and Grow Capital During Corrections. I think market corrections can be a
time of challenge or stress for some traders but also an area of opportunity and I found that
your book had a lot of interesting points in it. I hope that you don’t mind if we have a chat
about corrections a little bit today, are you cool with that?
Ivan: Yeah, absolutely. I’m ready for it.

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Andrew: Awesome! How about if we start with some of the basics then? If you can perhaps explain what
is a correction or how do you define a correction.
Ivan: I mean correction is any drawdown that is I guess more than 8 percent in the major markets
index like the S&P 500 and corrections such types of drawdowns, they happen every year at
least once a year and this is why it’ so important to learn how to deal with corrections.
Sometimes they turn into much deeper pullbacks 20 percent, 50 percent, which is a lot more
rare, but it happens.
If you look at let’s say Russell 2000, which is a small cap index here in the US, over the long-
term perspective, that index has absolutely outperformed any other diversified index in the US
by a big margin but then their average annual drawdown is close to 20 percent, so we have big
drawdowns in the markets almost every single year, so if you think that you can just buy and
possibly hold a well-diversified index and you won’t experience any volatility or a big drawdown
, you’re in for some surprise.
Corrections as I said because they happen every year in one form or another, but the thing
about them is that they create incredible opportunities. I’m not saying that so much on the
short-side during the correction; I’m saying after that. I have a favourite saying from Peter
Lynch who says, “I don't know what causes deep market corrections, but without them, all
amazing stock market track records will not be possible without them.”
We need corrections. They create incredible opportunities for all types of traders –for intraday
traders, for swing traders, for value investors, for position traders, corrections are needed.
Andrew: Okay, so before we get into the ways to manage and the opportunities of corrections, can you
explain a little about the signs that a correction could be coming?
Ivan: Yeah, there are some signs that this can improve your odds of figuring out when it starts, but in
general, guessing market tops is a lot more difficult than the market bottoms for the simple
reason that stocks tend to top individually, but bottom as a group. I say that they bottom as a
group because during corrections usually correlations go to 1.0, so most stocks and assets move
together up and down while during the bull markets is usually a market of stocks, a low-
correlation market of stocks, so the different stocks will top at different times. Of course, one of
the signs of a coming correction is a worsening market breadth when you see the stock market
keeps making new high but with fewer and fewer stocks involved, but that’s so-called breadth
diversions can continue for a very long time. It can continue for a year, so it’s not an exact
science.
Personally I become a lot less aggressive in the markets and on the long-side when major
market indices like the NASDAQ 100, the S&P 500, the Russell 2000 start trading below their 10-
day moving averages and specially below their 50-day moving averages, so that for me is a sign
for caution and I’m a lot less aggressive on the long side, but as I said I’m talking from the

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perspective of a swing trader, and the way I approach the market might not be your approach.
If you’re a value investor, you approach the market differently.
Another sign is that I’m looking at the performance of my trade history and I see a big spike in
reversals, in my long trades in my let’s say breakouts, then I know that the market has changed
obviously when I see that 70 percent of my trades are losing me money, there is an obvious
distribution in the markets, so the good thing about correction is that the markets rarely go
from being in a bull market to being in a correction mode. Usually there is a middle period of
distribution which gives you plenty of time and signs to raise some cash and become less
aggressive at least on the long side.
Andrew: Yes. Are you saying there that during those times, it’s typically a choppy time between a bull
market and perhaps a correction?
Ivan: Yeah, exactly. You have choppier markets. You have many breakouts there failing. You have
breakdowns there failing as the bulls are not willing to chase breakouts in the major indices but
they are willing to step in on dips, so you have that choppy market behaviour where the market
is looking for direction, and if you’re very active in this type of market just you can cause a lot of
damage to your accounts.
Andrew: Yeah. What are some of the ways that you can protect yourself then during those kinds of
choppy market times?
Ivan: The way I approach it, I cut my position size in at least half or even more. I become less
aggressive. I trade less. Look, drawdowns are inevitable. You have a drawdown; the question is
how big of a drawdown. It’s one thing to have a 5 percent, 7 percent drawdown; it’s another
thing to have a 50 percent drawdown if you’re an aggressive trader. Everyone makes a lot of
money during bull markets but very few people manage to keep that money once the inevitable
correction comes. That’s the big difference I think between professional and aspiring traders is
that professional traders learn to protect capital during times of smaller and no opportunities.
As David Taper likes to say, “There are times to make a lot of money, and there are times to not
lose money. Just knowing when to stay on the sidelines is very, very important in this business.”
Andrew: Yeah. That’s an excellent point you make there, Ivan. Now how about we chat about what
actually happens in the markets during a correction? Now you just mentioned that correlation
aspect of it but what about other functions of the market like volatility and you also touched a
little bit on market breadth too, but what actually happens in the markets during a correction?
Ivan: I mean you’re starting to see sector after sector getting sold off and usually the market leaders
are getting sold last, and that’s why many people if you’re owning the leaders, you might have
the illusion, “The market is falling apart, but you know my 5 stocks are not, so everything is
fine.” People, if they are owning the leaders, they don’t care.
Actually, one of the signs of a coming short-term bottom is when the actual leaders like your
Amazons and Facebooks of nowadays when they sell off because when they sell off, they

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usually sell off during periods of forced liquidation. When an institution sells not because they
want to but because they have to, meaning margin calls and just other reasons. Actually, when
you see that last, I mean I’ll take you back to the last sizable correction.
In early 2016, if you remember how the market had the first 3 weeks of 2016 had sold off super
quickly but then during that time, you had stocks like Amazon and Facebook, Microsoft they
held relatively well, and then you had a quick bounce, which pretty much recovered 50 percent
of that 3-week correction, and then there was another like lower. During that other lower,
which was in early February, those stocks that managed to hilt in January, they got crushed. All
those big tech leaders, they got absolutely crushed.
Andrew: Okay, so you just mentioned there a couple of signs that a correction maybe ending and
recovery could be beginning. Are there any other things that you look for during that phase of a
correction?
Ivan: Okay, so let’s talk about volatility exactly. I mean naturally volatility rises. one of the most
followed indicators here is the so-called VIX, which represent the S&P 500 options volatility.
During corrections, usually VIX futures go into backwardation. Usually most of the time, VIX
futures trade in contango, which means that let’s say the VIX May futures are higher than VIX
April futures, which is normal because they are further in time.
During corrections that futures curve inverts and you have that backwardation when the most
recent, the front month VIX futures have a much higher level than the second, the third,
sometimes the fourth, or the fifth months. This is a sign of institutions buying protection for
their portfolio, buying put options. That purchasing of put options that increases the implied
volatility of those same options and that’s why front month VIX spikes.
During those times, there is an ETF VXX, which follows the VIX, so over the long term, that’s a
terrible ETF because exactly of the so-called contango. If you own VXX in a long-term
perspective, you’re guaranteed to lose money. That’s why it’s probably down 99 percent since
inception exactly because of that futures curve. During correction, volatility spikes and one way
to protect your portfolio is to go Long volatility, that same crappy ETN VXX could be a great
hedging instruments or a short-term speculation vehicle during corrections because the VIX
futures go into backwardation, now all of a sudden, everything that is wrong with VXX, now it’s
only slight, so I don't know.
I don't know. I mean you have to be familiar with options and VIX futures I guess to understand
what I’m saying. But either way, being long volatility during corrections is one way to protect
your portfolio or to make some money during those times.
Andrew: That’s the protection during a correction. Now what about you already touched on this a little
bit but when you do start to see some of those signs that perhaps recovery is beginning, what
techniques can you use to try and profit from that market condition?

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Ivan: Okay so you’ll take the reverse trade of volatility, so there is ETN, which is inverse VIX XIV.
When the market reverses, so first of all volatility tends to tops several weeks after the market
bottoms, so the volatility is a lagging indicator and how lagging that depends on the severity of
the correction. For example, the last big correction in 2016, the market bottom was around
February 11, 12, then VIX topped a few days later, about February 17. That’s the good thing
about this approach that the volatility is always lagging.
The moment you have some breadth diversions and you see the market spiking, you wait a few
days until VIX futures go into contango again and then it’s a good time to buy XIV, which is the
inverse VIX ETN, and you can hold it for multiple weeks or multiple months after that. If you
look at its chart, it tends to recover pretty quickly. I mean last year, in February XAV was under
$20. It went to close to $80 in January this year, so you can see some huge swings; that’s the
easiest way to play it.
Of course, I said corrections create incredible opportunities for all types of traders, disregarding
of your time horizon. After corrections, the two best performing stock groups are the ones that
got hit the worst and the ones that yield the best. Usually every correction is lead by one major
sector; For example, in 2015-2016, it was the energy sector and emerging markets. In 2007-
2008, it was financial stocks. In 2000, it was the technology sectors. Every correction is lead by
one sector that got absolutely demolished that if you have stocks, it will go down 80 percent, 90
percent, 95 percent.
During the initial stages of recovery, those types of stocks can have gigantic moves, and I’m
talking 100 percent to 300 percent moves in 1 to 3 months. The other way to approach it if you
are afraid of buying stocks that are down so much 95 percent from their all-time highs is to pay
attention to the stocks that yield the best during that correction that managed to stay within 10
percent to 50 percent from their 52-week highs and they just build a new base.
Usually those types of stocks, they’re among the first to make new 52-week highs like days
after the market correction is over. For example, in 2009, 2 days in March 2009, 2 days after the
market bottoms, 3 stocks made new all-time highs in the entire market, only 3 stocks. Those
stocks were Netflix, Green Mountain Coffee Roasters, and AutoZone. Netflix and Green
Mountain Coffee Roasters, they went up 1,000 percent in the next 3 years, 2 to 3 years and
they were the first one to make new high. That’s all they need to pay attention which stocks are
going to make new 52-week highs after the market bounces.
You don’t even need to catch the exact market bottom. You just need to pay attention to which
stocks make 52-week highs a few days after that. AutoZone also did amazing. They also I think
tripled from that point pretty quickly.
In 2016, you saw absolutely the same thing. Stocks that kind of went sideways while the market
was crashing. For example, that stock with the symbol, COHR, in January, it had very strong
earnings report. It attempted to breakout to new 52-week highs, but then the market was

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crashing, so it basically went sideways for a few days. From there, that stock went up, more
than doubled in the next less than a year.
You keep seeing the same patterns over and over again after market corrections. Now the stock
that were hit the worst and the stock that yield the best usually delivered the best return for
the risk taken, and as I said if you don’t feel like not picking individual stocks, you just go with
that inverse VIX ETN XIV after the VIX futures go back to contango, and you get pretty good
return with very little effort.
I mean apparently nothing is guaranteed and keep in mind that ETN is super volatile. It’s super
normal for it to go up or down 20 percent in a week, so it’s not for the faint of heart but it’s just
one way to approach it.
Andrew: Yeah, it sounds like there is a lot of opportunity there. Now I just want to jump back to a
statement you made earlier. You may have to correct me if I’m wrong here, but I think you said
that one of the signs that a correction could be ending is when you have those market leaders
they get hammered pretty quickly because of forced selling. Now have you noticed the market
leaders before a correction ended up being the market leaders after a correction as well or
does it change as a result of that correction?
Ivan: It depends on the severity of the correction. In a normal garden-variety pullback, which is like
10 percent, yes you see those leaders bounce back and continue to lead the market but after a
deeper correction, usually you see a new group of leaders.
Andrew: Now I wanted to ask you. so earlier you said the correction could be 8 percent and it could be
50 percent, which is quite deep. What’s the difference between a correction and a bear market
like how do you determine when one is turning into the other?
Ivan: Well, you don’t really know in advance. There is no way for you to know that a 20 percent
correction will turn into a 50 percent bear market. That’s why they are so rare. I mean there is
apparently a lot of sentiment and psychology involved in that. Who knew that in 2007-2008,
that Lehman will go bankrupt. No one knew. You cannot predict that, so you have a sequence
of events that need to happen for a deep correction to turn into a bear market, which is I don't
think you can predict in advance, but as I said the market gives you plenty of signs and
opportunity to raise cash or to change your market approach and focus on intraday trading let’s
say during those volatile times.
A deeper 50 percent correction doesn’t affect you or affect you positively. There is just no way
to know if even 20 percent will turn into 50 percent. All we know that these are very rare and
when they happen if you manage to protect your capital, the opportunities after that are just
tremendous like you can build incredible wealth after a 50 percent correction. I mean I wish
there is another 50 percent correction to happen now because with the knowledge I have now,
I’ll be able to capitalize on that a lot better, and I’m sure that in our lifetime, we’ll see at least a
few of those. It’s just the way markets work.

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What is different nowadays I think is that the correlations. Right now, passive investing in
[unintelligible 0:31:04] accounts for about 40 percent of the market, and this percentage is
growing more and more, which means that correlation will be even higher, which means what?
That during bull markets, you will see crappy stocks go up a lot along with the high-quality
stocks and during bear markets, you will see super high-quality stocks go down a lot with the
rest, which it will create even better opportunities for stock pickers.
If we go back to the two big bear markets of the past 15 years, so in 2000-2002, the bear
market was led down by technology stocks but during that bear market, you had plenty of
stocks that were not correlated with the rest of the markets. For example, Panera Bread, which
was recently acquired, they made new all-time highs in the midst of that market crash and that
stock went up several hundred percent during that correction. You had plenty of stocks at the
time in 2000 and 2002 that did not go down with the markets. If you are just paying attention
to what is going on in the 52-week high list, you would have spotted plenty of growth
opportunities to participate on the long side.
In 2007-2008, we had a completely different situation because all stocks were destroyed. The
Googles and the Apples, it didn’t matter that they continue to grow their earnings at 100
percent, 200 percent. It didn’t matter like all of them got sold off and I’m thinking the last bear
market is more of a better representation of what we can expect in the future because of the
higher correlation nowadays. During a severe bear market, we’ll see more stocks get slammed
significantly.
Andrew: Yeah. Do you think that increasing correlation in corrections over time is likely to lead to deeper
corrections in the future or what do you think would be the outcome of that kind of trend in
correlation?
Ivan: Yeah. I think deeper corrections and also very aggressive recoveries and stronger bull markets
in general, and also as I said the stocks will move, the correlation will be super high between all
stocks and most asset classes so it will be really hard to find a place to hide. I mean the only
thing that we know for sure is that volatility will spike and you can protect your portfolio by
being long volatility or being short.
During a bull market, the market makes higher highs and higher lows, so buy the dips is a
system with an edge. During bear markets when the major indices are trading below declining
200-day moving average, you have lower highs and lower lows, so selling rallies and reverse is a
system with an edge.
Andrew: Yeah. I just want to jump back again to the difference between a correction and a bear market.
What’s the difference between a 50 percent correction and a bear market that goes down 50
percent? Can you kind of tell us the distinguishing factors between those two?
Ivan: It’s more of an art explanation than science like for me personally a bear market is when a
major index spends more than a year below its declining 200-day moving average. That’s my

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definition, and in the meantime, it goes down 30 percent, 40 percent 50 percent or more.
That’s the bear market. There is no exact definition. It’s surely different for everyone. I mean
there is an anecdote that in bear markets, you buy when the fear of losing is the highest and
you sell when the fear of missing out is the highest.
In bull market, you buy in both cases: when the fear of missing out is the highest and the fear of
losing is the highest. That’s the big difference. you need to be a lot more tactical during
corrections and during bear markets.
Andrew: Yeah, I want to ask you one final question before we start wrapping up for today and that is the
condition in the markets today. As you mentioned earlier, the previous correction was in early
2016, and that they tend to happen every year, so that was about a year ago now, maybe a
little bit more. What do you see in the markets today and what do you think –we’re not trying
to predict the future here but what do you think is happening in the markets and where do you
think that’s likely to lead?
Ivan: Look, the correction in 2016 wasn’t a small one. It was significant, almost 20 percent correction.
What I’m saying that is that every single year, it’s normal to see 7 percent, 8 percent to 10
percent pullback, which is not that severe of a correction. Lately what I’m seeing is that the
stocks that lead to market after the US elections like industrial metals, transportation, they’re
getting hit pretty hard. The only standing momentum leader up until last week was
semiconductors, and they’re also under pressure as of late.
There are less and less leaders left, so unless we see a major sector rotation that new sectors
that can lead the market higher, we can see a deeper correction. I mean a market can definitely
correct through time as well, so we can just remain in like choppy wide range without a clear
direction, which is we’ve seen in the worst trading environment and more challenging than just
hearing a correction that is done, and is 3 to 4 weeks and its done. There’s no way to tell. I
mean from what I can see is that the breakout in the major indices in the NASDAQ and the S&P
are getting faded but at the same time, deep buyers are still active. There is an underlying Bid in
the market. This is why lately we saw such a big spike in VIX. It’s really interesting that as of
right now early to mid-April, VIX futures are actually in backwardation, and they haven’t been in
such deep backwardation since early 2016.
Basically, there is currently absolutely no complacency in the market. People are afraid and
they’ve been buying a lot of protection, a lot of puts to protect their portfolios and that’s why
we saw that huge spike in VIX and put options implied volatility. People are prepared, which
means that if the market keeps going lower there, they are less likely to sell their shares
because they’re already insured, they’re already hedged. I’m thinking that we will just see I
think the worst-case scenario is more choppiness. I don’t really expect a big 15 to 20 percent
correction but you never know. Anything is possible.
Andrew: Okay, all right. Thank you very much for your take on the markets at the moment, Ivan. It’s
really interesting to hear your point of view. I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

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Ivan: Thank you.

Andrew: Okay, now I just want to start wrapping up with a few quick closing questions.
Ivan: Okay.
Andrew: What’s the biggest lesson that you’ve learned through trading?
Ivan: The biggest lesson is that different setups work in different markets. The very same setups that
can make you a lot of money in a rising market are setups with no edge in a choppy market or
in a declining market. You have to pay attention to your environment. The market plays the
music, and when the music changes, you need to change the way you dance or just step on the
sidelines because you’re going to lose money if you keep doing the same thing.
They say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and
expecting different results. In the market, if you do the same thing over and over again, you’re
guaranteed to get different results just because the markets are constantly changing, so I think
paying attention to the different types of markets is super important. I think that’s the most
important thing for a trader, and the second most important thing is look for industry relative
strength. There are always industries that are leading the market up and down, and if you focus
your trading efforts in those leading sectors, all of a sudden you’ll notice that risk management
will become a lot easier and your returns will improve substantially.
Andrew: Okay, cool. Thanks, Ivan. What’s the best trading advice you’ve ever received?
Ivan: The best trading advice? Well, studying success. I mean you can do that by studying great
traders and their approaches and how they’ve evolved over time and what books they read and
what are they writing about now, whether they have social media accounts or a blog. Even
most importantly, studying your own trades, your own winners and losers, how you can
improve.
Also studying past winners and losers in the market in general like one of my favourite exercises
every week is to look at all the stocks that went up or down more than 10 percent for the week
or more than 30 percent for the month. I look what do they have in common. Depending on the
market, they will have different things in common like after a market correction, you will notice
that most of the best performers who come from the worst-hit sectors are the ones that yield
the best. In a rising market, you will notice that maybe they belong to a certain sector.
Andrew: Okay, thanks. Do you have any favourite trading books?
Ivan: Yeah, I have many different trading books that are a favourite of mine. I read a lot. I wrote
several that people can check out. I think people are super lucky nowadays. There is so much
high-quality information that you can buy for $10 on Amazon. It’s just insane. I think all Jack
Schwager books, The Market Wizard books give really good foundation of market history and
psychology. I enjoy to read the work of Dr. Brett Steenbarger, who is a trading coach and

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psychologist. He’s super insightful and through him, I can look at the market from different
perspectives.
What else? Inside the House of Money by Steven Drobny. It’s kind of similar to Market Wizards,
but he focuses on macro hedge fund managers. The WallStrip Edge by Howard Lindzon is also a
very light read. He talks about how he uses the all-time high list to find good long-term
investments.
I think the more you read, the more trading knowledge you’ll compound and then you can
borrow from here and there and create your own approach that you fit better who you are. It
will fit better your strengths.
Andrew: Yeah. I agree. I do a lot of reading as well, and I think there’s lot to learn definitely a valuable
thing to do. Okay, now what’s the best way for listeners to learn more about you or from you?
Ivan: I’m pretty active on social media so people can find me on StockTwits or Twitter. My handle is
@ivanhoff, I also have a personal blog, ivanhoff.com. You can send me an email through that,
and that’s it. These are the main ways to approach me.
Andrew: Awesome! All right, well thank you very much for your time today, Ivan. Now, is there anything
else that you’d like to mention now before we wrap up for today?
Ivan: There is nothing I can think of right now.
Andrew: We’ve had a pretty thorough conversation today, so yeah thank you very much for that. I really
appreciate you sharing some of your insights into corrections. As you mentioned, we’ve got
some interesting conditions in the market at the moment, so it will be very interesting to see
how it all plays out.
Ivan: Yeah, definitely a lot more challenging like the first couple of months, maybe even 3 months of
the year were very easy trading environment. It was very easy to make money and all of a
sudden mid-March, I noticed even in my returns how the markets just changed, and the setups
that were making money all of a sudden were losing me money.
Andrew: Yeah, I agree. very interesting times, so I think when we release this podcast episode, it could
be a perfect timing, but we’ll see what happens in the markets, but thanks again for your time
today and I wish you all the best.
Ivan: Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you.
Andrew: Cheers, Ivan!

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