1

5 INTERVIEW OF BRIAN DAVID MITCHELL

7 BY: CORDON PARKS

8 JEFF ROSS

10

11 HELD ON

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13

14 MARCH 12, 2003

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1 MARCH 12, 2003 SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH

2 P R O C E E D I N G S

3 * * *

4 BRIAN DAVID MITCHELL WAS INTERVIEWED BY CORDON PARKS AND JEFF

5 ROSS AND GAVE THE FOLLOWING ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ASKED:

6 * * *

7 MR. PARKS: How are you doing? I assume you want

8 those handcuffs off?

9 A. That would be nice. I'd like to use the restroom if

10 I may. I would also like a glass -- a drink of water. I'm

11 quite thirsty. If that's possible.

12 MR. PARKS: Anything is possible. This is Jeff

13 Ross. He's with the FBI.

14 MR. ROSS: Hi.

15 MR. PARKS: I'm Detective Parks. These aren't my

16 cuffs. Bear with me.

17 A. Thank you.

18 MR. PARKS: Okay. All right. Let's go make sure

19 you can use the facilities and then we'll get started. Just

20 follow me.

21 A. Okay.

22 MR. PARKS: Jeff will come behind.

23 (The three leave the room and return.)

24 MR. ROSS: Come on in and have a seat.

25 MR. PARKS: What's your last name?

 3

1 A. Isaiah.

2 MR. PARKS: How do you spell Isaiah?

3 A. I-s-a-i-a-h.

4 MR. PARKS: And first name?

5 A. Immanuel.

6 MR. PARKS: How do you spell it?

7 A. I-m-m-a-n-u-e-l.

8 MR. PARKS: Your middle name?

9 A. David. D-a-v-i-d.

10 MR PARKS: What's your birthday?

11 A. 1853.

12 MR. PARKS: What's your address?

13 A. My home is heaven. That's the only address I can

14 give you.

15 MR. PARKS: Okay. Well, not to be too obvious about

16 it, but we've been looking for Elizabeth Smart for some

17 months, and she's with you. And we're curious as to how that

18 all came about. As far as we're concerned, it's a crime.

19 I'm going to be up front with you right off the bat. We

20 believe you committed a crime.

21 A. Right.

22 MR. PARKS: And we have certain rights -- you have

23 certain rights that we have to advise you of before we

24 continue. You have the right to remain silent. Do you

25 understand that?
 4

1 A. Yes.

2 MR. PARKS: Anything you say can and will be used

3 against you in a court of law. Do you understand that?

4 A. Uh-huh.

5 MR. PARKS: You have the right to talk to a lawyer

6 and have him present with you while you're being questioned.

7 Do you understand that?

8 A. Yes.

9 MR. PARKS: If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer,

10 one will be appointed to represent you before any

11 questioning, if you wish. Do you understand that?

12 A. Uh-huh.

13 MR. PARKS: If you decide not to exercise these

14 rights, we're curious as to how that all came about. As far

15 as we're concerned, it's a crime, I'm going to be up front

16 with you right off the bat. We believe you committed a

17 crime, and we have certain rights that we have to advise you

18 of before we talk to you.

19 A. Right.

20 MR. PARKS: You have the right to remain silent. Do

21 you understand that?

22 A. Uh-huh.

23 MR. PARKS: Anything you say can and will be used

24 against you in a court of law. Do you understand that?

25 A. Uh-huh.
 5

1 MR. PARKS: You have the right to have -- to talk to

2 a lawyer and have him present with you while you're being

3 questioned. Do you understand that?

4 A. Yes.

5 MR. PARKS: If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer,

6 one will be appointed to represent you before any

7 questioning, if you wish. Do you understand that?

8 A. Uh-huh.

9 MR. PARKS: You can decide at any time to exercise

10 these rights and not answer any questions or make any

11 statements. Do you understand that?

12 A. Yes, I do.

13 MR. PARKS: Okay. Do you understand each of these

14 rights I just explained to you?

15 A. I do.

16 MR. PARKS: Having these rights in mind, will you

17 talk to us and answer our questions?

18 A. I will.

19 MR. PARKS: Do you prefer to be called Immanuel?

20 A. Yes.

21 MR. PARKS: Okay, Immanuel, tell us about how you

22 came to have Elizabeth Smart with you.

23 A. You have in your possession The Book of Immanuel

24 David Isaiah.

25 MR. PARKS: We don't, actually.

 6

1 A. You should.

2 MR. PARKS: Where is it?

3 A. It's with my things.

4 MR. PARKS: With your property?

5 A. Yes.

6 MR. PARKS: The Book of what?

7 A. Immanuel David Isaiah.

8 MR. PARKS: Okay. All right. Go ahead.

9 A. That tells you who I am and what I am about.

10 MR. ROSS: Did you write it?

11 A. The Lord God Almighty wrote it.

12 MR. ROSS: Through you?

13 A. Yes, through me.

14 MR. PARKS: And what's in that book that would cause

15 you to have Elizabeth Smart with you?

16 A. Read the book.

17 MR. PARKS: Oh, I will, but how -- how did she come

18 to be in your custody?

19 A. By the power of God, by the power of Almighty God.

20 MR. PARKS: And how did God lead her to you?

21 A. He worketh by the power of the Holy Ghost. He

22 worketh by the power of the Holy Ghost, and he worked upon

23 her heart that she knew that I was the Lord's true servant.

24 MR. PARKS: So you converted her to your way of

25 thinking.
 7

1 A. I didn't convert her to anything. The Holy Spirit

2 converts.

3 MR. PARKS: The Holy Ghost converted her?

4 A. The Holy Spirit converts. The Holy Ghost converted

5 her. The spirit of God. She was converted by the spirit of

6 God.

7 MR. PARKS: And why was she converted to be

8 with you?

9 A. When you read the book, you'll understand.

10 MR. PARKS: Okay. Well, you have lived in what we

11 would call the secular world.

12 A. Right. Yes.

13 MR. PARKS: You did go by the name of Brian David

14 Mitchell, did you not?

15 A. If you ask me what I was -- who I am is like to ask

16 me if I am someone other than who I am is --

17 MR. PARKS: Uh-huh?

18 A. -- to place me in a position where I am not.

19 MR. PARKS: Uh-huh.

20 A. In other words, I have forsaken the world and all of

21 the world.

22 MR. PARKS: Uh-huh.

23 A. And I am a new creature in Christ.

24 MR. PARKS: Uh-huh.

25 A. In the world, and it's as immaterial to ask me -- or

 8

1 to answer such a question, because it's -- it's absolutely

2 immaterial.

3 MR. PARKS: Okay. Well, it's not immaterial to us,

4 so please bear with us.

5 A. I understand, I know it's not immaterial to you

6 because this is how you work in the world, but if you were to

7 take -- ask the Savior of the world who he was, he wouldn't

8 say, I am the son of Joseph and Mary born in Nazareth. He

9 would not.

10 MR. PARKS: That --

11 A. There is no incident --

12 MR. PARKS: Uh-huh.

13 A. There's no recorded incident where he was found

14 saying that. He would say, my father has sent me.

15 MR. PARKS: Uh-huh.

16 A. I came to do the will of the Father.

17 MR. PARKS: But you're not Jesus Christ?

18 A. I am not Jesus Christ.

19 MR. PARKS: You're a prophet?

20 A. I am his servant.

21 MR. PARKS: Your a servant?

22 A. I am the Lord's servant, and he has called me, and

23 he has called me out of the world, so I have no part in the

24 world, so I have no part in these questions or answers that

25 you're seeking about anything other than who I am now.

 9

1 MR. PARKS: Okay. This girl that was with you, what

2 did you call her?

3 A. Her name is Shear Jashub.

4 MR. PARKS: How do you spell that?

5 A. S-h-e-a-r.

6 MR. ROSS: S-h-e-r?

7 A. S-h-e-a-r. Shear. Jas -- Jashub is J-a-s-h-u-b.

8 MR. ROSS: J-a-s-h-u-b?

9 A. Shear Jashub.

10 MR. PARKS: How old is she.

11 A. Here, once again, that question --

12 MR. PARKS: Is very relevant. How old is she?

13 A. She's 18.

14 MR. PARKS: What would lead you to believe she's 18?

15 A. Because the Lord has said she is such.

16 MR. PARKS: The Lord God Almighty told you she was

17 18 years old? That's a yes or no question.

18 A. Yes. Yes.

19 MR. PARKS: Okay. Did you marry her?

20 A. You say 18. You say 18.

21 MR. PARKS: Brian --

22 A. I am not -- that's not who I am.

23 MR. PARKS: Immanuel, listen. Did you marry her?

24 A. I didn't marry her, but she is sealed to me as my

25 wife, yes.
 10

1 MR. PARKS: She's sealed to you as your wife?

2 A. Yes.

3 MR. PARKS: Have you had sexual intercourse with

4 her?

5 A. Those are very personal, private questions.

6 MR. PARKS: Those are very relevant questions. Did

7 you have sex with her? Yes or no.

8 A. You told me I could have an attorney present. I am

9 my attorney.

10 MR. PARKS: You are your own attorney?

11 A. Presently I am.

12 MR. PARKS: Okay.

13 A. Presently I am. I am defending myself, am I not?

14 MR. PARKS: Yes, you are.

15 A. These questions can be used against me, can they

16 not?

17 MR. PARKS: They can, yes.

18 A. Okay.

19 MR. PARKS: Well, let's just cover the basics, okay?

20 A. Okay.

21 MR. PARKS: Did you take Shear Jashub?

22 A. Shear Jashub Esther Isaiah is her name, Shear Jashub

23 Esther Isaiah.

24 MR. PARKS: I'm sorry, Immanuel, I just can't

25 pronounce that. I'm just going to call her Elizabeth.

 11

1 A. Shear Jashub Esther Isaiah. Esther.

2 MR. PARKS: I'll call her Esther. Did you take

3 Esther out of her house?

4 A. The Lord God delivered her unto us.

5 MR. PARKS: How did the Lord God deliver her to you?

6 Was that on the street somewhere? Was it at the shelter?

7 MR. ROSS: Did the Lord sneak in her bedroom in the

8 middle of night and deliver her to you? This is -- I

9 understand, you know, you're trying to -- this isn't making

10 much sense to the two of us.

11 A. Right.

12 MR. PARKS: So I was hoping maybe you can explain it

13 in a way I can understand it.

14 A. You want answers you can use against me. You know

15 you do.

16 MR. ROSS: Not only that.

17 A. And you say you want to know the truth.

18 MR. ROSS: That's true. We do.

19 A. But the truth will set you free. It will set all

20 men free, and when Jesus Christ was questioned, his answers

21 didn't please them either. They were angry with him.

22 MR. PARKS: Excuse me. You were once LDS. You

23 considered Joseph Smith to be a true prophet of God.

24 A. Joseph Smith is the true prophet of God.

25 MR. PARKS: He wrote the 13 Articles of Faith.

 12

1 A. Yes he did.

2 MR. PARKS: What are the 13 Articles of Faith,.

3 A. Sir --

4 MR. PARKS: We believe in being subject to the laws

5 of the land. Isn't that what the 13th Article of Faith is?

6 A. Yes.

7 MR. PARKS: What we want to know is, have you been

8 faithful to your own beliefs? Have you been faithful to the

9 laws of the land?

10 A. What was Jesus accused of?

11 MR. PARKS: I'm not talking about Jesus. I've been

12 talking to you.

13 A. I have been absolutely faithful to the righteous

14 laws of this land. I mean, I have a -- all righteous laws

15 flow from God. Not all laws are righteous, and not all laws

16 come from God. And the Constitution of the United States was

17 founded on righteous principles, and when you read The Book

18 of Immanuel David Isaiah, you'll come to understand that this

19 nation has become the most corrupt and evil nation on the

20 face of the earth. And, why? Because they have been given

21 great light, truth and knowledge, and they have perverted the

22 right ways of the Lord, and they are filled with great

23 Idolatry and wickedness. And those -- and those who have

24 greater truth have greater evil. There is greater goodness

25 with greater truth possible, but there's also greater evil

 13

1 because, when you have greater truth, you can put on all the

2 appearances of righteousness and pervert the right ways of

3 the Lord.

4 And this is what this country has done because they

5 have had great blessings, great light, truth and knowledge,

6 even coming down from God through, you know, a divine

7 constitution and Christians coming here for religious

8 freedom.

9 MR. PARKS: Well, let's get back to Elizabeth Smart.

10 MR. ROSS: Yeah, because this sounds more like a

11 political debate than --

12 A. Not political. There's nothing unpolitical.

13 MR. ROSS: Let me just -- let me just put this right

14 out on the table.

15 A. There is nothing unpolitical.

16 MR. ROSS: So far, I have no idea what you're

17 talking about. Maybe it's because I grew up outside of Utah

18 and I'm not familiar with all this, you know, religious

19 stuff, but you need to bring it down to a level so that I can

20 understand it because this stuff you're talking about, you

21 know, and how it relates to Elizabeth and how she ended up

22 being taken from her home.

23 MR. PARKS: Let me say this, that the past nine

24 months that family has gone through hell.

25 A. I understand.
 14

1 MR. ROSS: You do understand that?

2 A. I understand that very much. Their whole family has

3 been torn apart. I understand that.

4 MR. ROSS: And let me tell you, since the day she

5 has been taken, both Cord and myself and hundreds of other

6 law enforcement officers have been spending countless police

7 hours and hours trying to find this girl. And the family, I

8 mean they wake up during the middle of the night, and their

9 kid is gone. They have no idea where she went. They think

10 she's dead.

11 A. Right.

12 MR. ROSS: We expected to find a corpse.

13 A. Uh-huh.

14 MR. ROSS: So your explanation so far, as far as God

15 delivering -- God delivering her to you makes no sense to me

16 because it doesn't match up with the facts.

17 A. Well, let me tell you, if she -- if she -- how --

18 how -- how did -- how was -- when the children of Israel were

19 led into the promise land --

20 MR. ROSS: Let's keep it out of the Bible and keep

21 it in the present time.

22 A. No. No. There's no other way I can explain it.

23 I'm sorry.

24 MR. ROSS: Well don't mind me, if, when you start to

25 explain it and it makes no sense to me --

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1 A. Okay.

2 MR. ROSS: -- if I just cut into it.

3 A. Okay. Well, let me say, you just shared with me how

4 her family suffered, right?

5 MR. ROSS: Uh-huh.

6 A. But when God's children became idolatrous and

7 wicked, they suffered many things. The whole history of

8 mankind in the scriptures is great suffering.

9 MR. ROSS: Uh-huh.

10 A. They became idolatrous and wicked. They have been

11 taken into captivity. They have been torn apart. They have

12 been slain. Many things have happened to the Lord's children

13 when they have been disobedient.

14 MR. ROSS: Time to bring you in for a landing

15 because you're talking about this stuff again.

16 A. Okay. Hear it comes in for a landing. When the

17 children of Israel went into the promise land, they destroyed

18 many, many peoples, and in -- and in many cases they took the

19 daughters captive and just destroyed all the men, women and

20 children except the daughters who were virgins. All the boys

21 were destroyed. All the men and women were destroyed and the

22 only thing they took captive were the virgin daughters. That

23 was the children of Israel when they went into the promise

24 land in some cities. The Lord had commanded them to destroy

25 the public completely.

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1 MR. ROSS: So, where was your promise land?

2 A. The whole earth is a promise land for all of us.

3 When the --

4 MR. ROSS: But for you?

5 A. When the Lord comes into great power and mighty

6 glory and might, he's going to destroy all wicked and lift up

7 the poor, the sick, the afflicted, the humble followers of

8 Christ and lift them up, and they will inherit the earth.

9 This is according to the gospel and the scriptures and the

10 scriptures of the teachings of the Lord.

11 MR. ROSS: All right.

12 MR. PARKS: Are you saying that, because you are a

13 prophet of God --

14 A. I never said I was a prophet of God.

15 MR. PARKS: I believe you did.

16 A. No, I didn't. I said I'm the servant of the Lord.

17 MR. PARKS: All right. Because you are --

18 A. If the Lord God --

19 MR. PARKS: Isaiah --

20 A. If the Lord God sayeth --

21 MR. PARKS: Isaiah, you're talking all over me here,

22 sir. Please relax.

23 A. Immanuel.

24 MR. PARKS: Immanuel, relax. Are you saying because

25 you're a servant of the Lord that God provided you with a

 17

1 virgin to be your bride? Is that what you're saying? That's

2 a yes or no question, Immanuel.

3 A. I didn't say that. You can draw your own

4 conclusions. You said -- you were talking about her family

5 suffered and you couldn't understand, you couldn't understand

6 why --

7 MR. PARKS: Immanuel.

8 A. -- their family would have to suffer.

9 MR. PARKS: Immanuel.

10 A. I'm saying that the Lord's children.

11 MR. PARKS: Immanuel.

12 A. There's much suffering had.

13 MR. ROSS: So, can we draw that conclusion, that

14 because you're a servant of the Lord?

15 MR. PARKS: God owed you a virgin for a wife?

16 A. Absolutely not. You're making your own

17 conclusions.

18 MR. ROSS: I'm asking.

19 A. He asked why did her family have to suffer. I'm

20 telling you that --

21 MR. PARKS: Okay. We're beyond that. Let me get on

22 to another factor, okay?

23 A. Okay.

24 MR. PARKS: We've been talking to this girl, and she

25 said some really terrible things about you, and I just want
 18

1 to ask you some very direct questions that don't deserve an

2 answer from theology, okay? Did you take this girl out of

3 her house at knife-point? Yes or no?

4 A. I'm not going to answer that question.

5 MR. PARKS: And why not? I just want to know why

6 you don't want to answer.

7 MR. ROSS: You have to answer, you know.

8 MR. PARKS: Let me explain something to you, okay?

9 A. Okay.

10 MR. PARKS: You're not that far off, okay? We've

11 been studying you now for a couple of weeks. You have been

12 arrested for DUI and for some substance abuse way back in the

13 '70's. You were arrested for burglary in San Diego last

14 month, and you gave a bad name. You were stopped by the

15 Sandy police this afternoon, and you and Wanda and Elizabeth

16 all gave bad names, obviously an attempt to evade the police.

17 You were much more street wise. You were much more street

18 wise than you are letting on to us now. You have been around

19 more --

20 A. I am not letting on to anything else but who I am.

21 MR. PARKS: I think what you're doing here is you're

22 thinking that you're going to lay some kind of insanity

23 defense.

24 A. I'm not -- I'm not -- absolutely not. Absolutely

25 not.
 19

1 MR. PARKS: So, you are sane?

2 A. I am saying -- I'm saying to you that I am who I am,

3 Immanuel David Isaiah, the servant of the Lord.

4 MR. ROSS: Brian David Mitchell?

5 A. I am the servant of the Lord, and my name is

6 Immanuel David Isaiah.

7 MR. ROSS: Well, guess what? We're servants of the

8 Lord, too, only in a different track.

9 MR. PARKS: Here's the deal. Do you know what

10 you're under arrest here for? You are under arrest for

11 aggravated kidnapping because the girl told us you took her

12 against her will out of her house at knife-point. You are

13 under arrest for aggravated sexual assault on a minor. Both

14 of these charges carry life imprisonment. You can be Dave

15 Isaiah Immanuel in prison for the rest of your life, and

16 that's very likely.

17 This is your opportunity now to tell us what

18 happened and why you did what you did. And, instead, you

19 keep sending us off on tangents that have nothing to do with

20 the matters and questions at hand. You are very likely to

21 spend the rest of your life in prison. Now, that might not

22 be important to you as the servant of the Lord, and you may

23 think it's nothing, but let me tell you, you will never see

24 Wanda again. You will never see Elizabeth again. You will

25 never get out of prison.

 20

1 A. You're talking about -- you're talking about --

2 MR. PARKS: I'm talking about your future, Isaiah.

3 A. No.

4 MR. PARKS: I'm talking about your future here, now.

5 A. Will you please understand that God hath power to

6 deliver me.

7 MR. PARKS: Do you understand that you don't have an

8 insanity defense because you have obviously lied to conceal

9 your identity from the police?

10 A. It mattereth not what you're saying and how good you

11 think this case is against me. It mattereth not. God hath

12 power to deliver me out of the hands of all my enemies.

13 MR. PARKS: Well, we --

14 MR. ROSS: Are we your enemies?

15 A. The Lord said to Peter, get thee behind me, Satan.

16 MR. ROSS: You're talking Bible stuff again. I

17 never even read it. I pretended like I did in grade school,

18 but I wasn't. I was reading comic books.

19 A. You said you were serving the Lord, too, you were

20 serving the Lord, too.

21 MR. ROSS: Yes. That's right.

22 A. I can only answer you according to the words of the

23 Lord.

24 MR. ROSS: All right. Well, let's --

25 A. He said to Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan.

 21

1 Now, was Peter at that moment his enemy? Yes.

2 Because we're all subject to deception. We're all subject

3 to -- to follow the wrong spirit and to follow our own.

4 MR. ROSS: Man, you're talking in circles. You're

5 talking this Biblical stuff that makes no sense to anyone in

6 this room in the 21st century.

7 MR. PARKS: Immanuel. Immanuel.

8 MR. ROSS: It doesn't.

9 A. I know it doesn't. And that's why great

10 destructions are prophesied upon the whole face of the

11 earth.

12 MR. PARKS: Immanuel. Immanuel?

13 A. What's your name?

14 MR. PARKS: My name is Cordon.

15 A. Cordon?

16 MR. PARKS: Yeah. I'm a Christian.

17 A. Yeah.

18 MR. PARKS: I'm a Lutheran.

19 A. Okay.

20 MR. PARKS: I've read the Bible.

21 A. Okay.

22 MR. PARKS: I've studied the Bible.

23 A. Uh-huh.

24 MR. PARKS: I'm familiar with the great prophets,

25 Elisha, Elijah.
 22

1 A. Uh-huh.

2 MR. PARKS: I'm unaware of any prophet that lied to

3 conceal their identity.

4 A. Abraham. Well, I'm not going to get into that.

5 MR. PARKS: I'm unaware of any prophet that took a

6 girl out of her own house at knife-point and forced her --

7 A. What did --

8 MR. PARKS: And forced her to marry him.

9 A. What did --

10 MR. ROSS: And then had sex with her.

11 A. Was Joshua --

12 MR. ROSS: Kept her away from her family.

13 A. Was Joshua -- was Joshua a prophet?

14 MR. PARKS: Yes, he was.

15 A. Okay. Then why did the children of Israel, under

16 the commandment of God, go into the promise land and destroy

17 many cities and, in some cases, take the daughters?

18 MR. PARKS: If I recall my Old Testament, the Lord

19 actually commanded them to destroy everybody and leave only

20 the livestock. Is that not true?

21 A. No. In some instances, the daughters were

22 preserved, those who were virgins.

23 MR. PARKS: In what cities? I'm unaware of that.

24 The Lord commanded them to go into Canaan and wipe everybody

25 out.
 23

1 A. Yes, but there were instances where they took the

2 daughters and sometimes the animals.

3 MR. PARKS: And I'm asking, what instance?

4 A. You know what?

5 MR. ROSS: Where is this --

6 MR. PARKS: You say you know your Old Testament.

7 You say you know your Old Testament. Where is that?

8 A. It's in there. You find it. It's in there.

9 MR. PARKS: So you don't know.

10 A. It's in there.

11 MR. PARKS: So maybe you haven't studied the Bible

12 as much as you say you have. So maybe this is all just bull

13 shit. Maybe this is all just about David -- maybe this is

14 all just about David Mitchell trying to get a young virgin

15 for himself.

16 A. No. You know what? None of those who Christ called

17 to be apostles were learned men. They were fishermen.

18 MR. ROSS: None of them were kidnappers either.

19 None of them. None of them raped little children. None of

20 them were ordered to take a girl against her will out of a

21 house. None of them threatened to kill a little 9-year-old

22 girl if she made any noise or whatever.

23 MR. PARKS: You know, I don't hate you. He doesn't

24 hate you either, but we're going to go to the judge and ask

25 for considerations on your bail because you've got to realize

 24

1 that life as you've known it is over.

2 A. I don't expect you -- to be delivered out of this.

3 MR. PARKS: I don't expect that you're going to get

4 out of custody until the day you die, okay? Your future

5 depends on this interview right here, right now.

6 A. Do you remember -- do you remember that Peter was in

7 prison and an angel came and the guards -- and opened the

8 prison door and let him out.

9 MR. PARKS: Isaiah, nobody is going to come and let

10 you out of this room, Hun. There's nobody coming for you.

11 A. You know what? God will deliver me.

12 x

13 x

14 x

15 x

16 x

17 x

18 x

19 x

20 x

21 x

22 x

23 x

24 x

25 x
 25

1 x

2 x

3 x

4 x

5 x

6 x

7 MR. PARKS: Well, you know, your daughter Sarah --

8 A. Ask me --

9 Q. Your daughter Sarah, and your other daughter, what's

10 her name, Angela? Andrea? It's Angela.

11 A. Yeah.

12 MR. PARKS: We've been talking to her, too, and she

13 says that you're just not really quite your standard person.

14 She says there's things that are wrong with you, okay?

15 A. Yeah. And Christ was considered that there was much

16 wrong with him.

17 MR. PARKS: You're not Christ.

18 A. No. But I'm his servant, and all of his apostles

19 and his prophets, from the beginning of time -- Enoch was

20 called a wild man in the desert.

21 MR. PARKS: What we are trying to get --

22 A. They are all considered to be crazy, nuts, all of

23 them, by the world.

24 MR. ROSS: We are not saying --

25 A. No, you're not.

 26

1 MR. PARKS: He was telling you what Angela said.

2 A. Exactly. So I responded to that by telling you that

3 this is often what -- that's --

4 MR. ROSS: That's neither here nor there. We are

5 trying to find out what happened with Elizabeth, where you

6 were for nine months with her, how many times you had sex

7 with her, if that was the only kid you ever had sex with

8 besides Elizabeth, how it happened that, you know, she gets

9 taken out of her room during the middle of the night.

10 Those are things we're interested in. That's it.

11 We want to be able to go to Elizabeth's family and offer an

12 explanation as to how, for the past nine months, she has been

13 kept away from her friends, her family, her parents, her

14 brothers and sisters, who have been absolutely terrified and

15 horrified by this whole thing and, for probably some months,

16 have thought that she's not even alive. I mean, we want to

17 be able to have an explanation for them, and, I mean, you

18 have to feel for the family in this and kind of see where

19 they are coming from in all of this. I mean, they have gone

20 through hell.

21 I have gone to their house on numerous occasions.

22 Cordon has talked to them on many occasions.

23 A. I have great compassion and love for them because

24 they are the parents of my --

25 MR. PARKS: Oh, horseshit. You took their daughter

 27

1 out of their house at knife-point, and now you're not even

2 denying that?

3 A. You're saying -- you're saying I did that.

4 MR. PARKS: I'm saying you did it.

5 A. The Lord God -- you're saying that I did that.

6 MR. PARKS: I'm saying that you did it.

7 A. I'm telling you that the Lord God Almighty delivered

8 her to us.

9 MR. PARKS: And I'm asking how, because I don't

10 believe you. I think you're lying your ass off.

11 MR. ROSS: If you had -- if you had --

12 A. I've never said -- I've never said -- I have never

13 lied about anything. All I've told you --

14 MR. PARKS: Then you tell me the truth. How did

15 Elizabeth wind up with you? Tell me the truth right now.

16 A. By the power of God she was delivered to us.

17 MR. PARKS: And how did God deliver her to you?

18 A. By the power of God.

19 MR. ROSS: How did God get you in the house? How

20 did God get you into the house?

21 A. By the power of God, she was delivered to us.

22 MR. PARKS: Levitated you into the house? You know,

23 you're not --

24 MR. ROSS: Brian, this isn't working.

25 A. Immanuel.
 28

1 MR. ROSS: Well, I'll start calling you Immanuel

2 when you start giving me answers to questions that I think

3 are reasonable, because right now this God delivering her

4 from the house is ridiculous.

5 A. I -- I've tried to give you the honest truth.

6 Q. No, you haven't.

7 A. Yes, I have.

8 MR. ROSS: The honest truth would be you telling me

9 how you got her into your control and where you kept her

10 for the past nine months and what you have done with her

11 for the past nine months, and not telling me stories about

12 people going into the promise land and killing everybody

13 except for the virgin daughters. I don't want to hear that

14 shit. I'll save that for Sunday when I go to church.

15 MR. PARKS: You know what? You're ashamed. Deep

16 down inside, you know what you did was wrong, and you're

17 ashamed. That's why you won't tell us.

18 A. If you have any --

19 MR. PARKS: That's why you -- prophets do not hide

20 their actions. They stand up for them and they answer for

21 them if God told you to, you better tell us.

22 MR. ROSS: And they take responsibility for it.

23 This is bullshit.

24 A. You're saying that I can't use the scriptures, and

25 yet both of you do.

 29

1 MR. PARKS: I'm telling you that you're lying to us.

2 MR. ROSS: Let me ask you this --

3 MR. PARKS: You're ashamed of your actions, and you

4 will not explain your actions to us.

5 A. You used the scriptures. And Christ did not --

6 MR. ROSS: Did Christ run from the cops?

7 MR. PARKS: Did he give false names when he was

8 arrested and approached by the police?

9 A. He had to flee many times.

10 MR. ROSS: Really.

11 MR. PARKS: Really? When did he ever give a bad

12 name to the police, like you did today?

13 MR. ROSS: Yeah. When did he ever do that? Christ

14 never did that.

15 A. He did.

16 MR. ROSS: Didn't he kind of hand himself over?

17 MR. PARKS: Are you telling me our Savior lied to

18 the police?

19 A. He did not -- he did not --

20 MR. ROSS: He never --

21 A. He did not -- in many instances, he did not give

22 them what they were after.

23 MR. ROSS: How many times did Christ get pulled over

24 on a DUI or break in to someone else's house?

25 A. No. There were prophets who were drunk and who had
 30

1 been drunk.

2 MR. ROSS: How many times has Christ gone into a

3 little girl's house and taken her out of her home during the

4 middle of the night against her will? When have you ever

5 known Christ to pick up a weapon?

6 A. Okay. Is Christ the God? Is he God?

7 MR. ROSS: Well, according to my religion, he is.

8 A. Okay. All right, then. All the things he commanded

9 his people to do in the Bible, Christ did.

10 MR. PARKS: Did he command anyone to abduct a little

11 girl and have sex with her? I don't believe my New Testament

12 says anything about that. I think this is all about

13 Immanuel.

14 MR. ROSS: I think it's all about --

15 MR. PARKS: It's all about you and what you want.

16 You want your virgin. You want to have a young girl to have

17 sex with.

18 A. I know what you're going to accuse me of.

19 MR. PARKS: Even if you have to go take her.

20 A. I know what you're going to accuse me with. You

21 want to accuse me of being some diabolical, evil criminal.

22 MR. PARKS: No.

23 A. And I am a servant of Lord, and I have only done

24 what I have been commanded to do.

25 MR. ROSS: By whom?

 31

1 A. By the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 MR. ROSS: So, God commanded you to go into the

3 Smart home and take her?

4 A. I -- the only thing that I'm saying to you that God

5 commanded me to do was to accept her as my wife.

6 MR. ROSS: Okay. And when he commanded you to

7 accept her, what did you do?

8 A. I accepted her.

9 MR. PARKS: How did you accept her?

10 A. I received her.

11 MR. PARKS: How did you receive her?

12 A. In the bonds of marriage.

13 MR. ROSS: In the bonds of marriage? Well, okay.

14 How did you get to that point? You have to be able to, you

15 know, get her somehow. You can't marry someone without them

16 being present.

17 A. She was delivered in -- unto us.

18 MR. ROSS: By whom?

19 A. By God, by the Lord God.

20 MR. ROSS: I remember seeing, you know, the

21 description of the guy that went into the bedroom, and I

22 don't think it was any anything close to, you know -- pretty

23 much close to you. Even the voice. I mean, Mary Katherine,

24 she recognized the voice. It just took her awhile to figure

25 out who it was because she had heard it before, because you
 32

1 had done work at the Smart home. So, it wasn't God that went

2 in there.

3 A. It was God that went in there.

4 MR. ROSS: Through you?

5 A. God works through many ways and means.

6 MR. PARKS: You're nodding your head. God through

7 you?

8 A. I did not acknowledge that. I said God --

9 MR. ROSS: You nodded your head.

10 A. I was not.

11 MR. PARKS: You're nodding your head.

12 A. I said, God works through --

13 MR. ROSS: Brian, you nodded your head.

14 A. I said, God's works through many ways and means.

15 MR. PARKS: Brian -- excuse me. Immanuel, we talked

16 to the girl.

17 A. Okay.

18 MR. PARKS: She says it was you, that you appeared

19 in her bedroom on June 4, held a knife to her throat and took

20 her out of the house and took her to a campsite --

21 A. If she's saying --

22 MR. PARKS: And raped her.

23 A. If she's saying that, why are you asking me?

24 MR. ROSS: Because. You want to know why? Because

25 there's a 15-year-old girl who, for the past ten months or

 33

1 nine months has been completely horrified, and the last thing

2 I want to have to do is put her through all that pain again

3 by constantly asking her questions and have her relive -- I

4 used to work with kids, I worked with kids who were horribly

5 abused, sexually, physically.

6 A. I understand.

7 MR. ROSS: I don't think you do, okay?

8 A. But she --

9 MR. ROSS: Because to ask her to relive that --

10 A. She -- she --

11 MR. ROSS: Hang on a second. I'm talking.

12 A. To relive what? She's had -- she's had a glorious

13 experience.

14 MR. ROSS: She's had a glorious experience?

15 With you? Are you telling me, for the last nine months that

16 she's been with you that it's been glorious?

17 A. It's been -- our -- we have had many trials. All of

18 us have had many trials and tribulations.

19 MR. ROSS: Can you explain some of them to me?

20 A. We have all had many difficult trials and

21 tribulations, but we have seen God's power of deliverance, to

22 protect, provide and deliver mightily, and --

23 MR. ROSS: For example?

24 A. And she knows -- she knows who I am. She knows I'm

25 a servant of the Lord.

 34

1 MR. ROSS: She does?

2 A. Yes, she did. She does.

3 MR. ROSS: So give me some examples of some of these

4 trials you went through for the past nine months with

5 Elizabeth and with Wanda. Do you call her Wanda or does she

6 have another name, too?

7 A. Shear Jashub Esther Isaiah and Hephzibah Eladah

8 Isaiah.

9 MR. ROSS: I can't even pronounce that one. Wanda

10 is easier for me. And let me tell you something else. I'm

11 not going to -- I'm not going to use it as anything --

12 because I can't even say Shear Jashub? Was that right?

13 A. You said it.

14 MR. ROSS: Was that good? All right. But tell us

15 about some of the trials over the past nine months that

16 you've had her. Tell us about some of the tribulations.

17 A. We had great opposition in the world.

18 MR. ROSS: Well, explain it. Give me some specific

19 examples. Tell me about the time that you took her out of

20 the house without getting caught.

21 A. It's no different. It's no different than all of

22 the Lord's followers and servants have had from the beginning

23 of time.

24 MR. PARKS: How did God tell you to get into the

25 house?
 35

1 A. Great opposition. Great opposition.

2 MR. PARKS: Well, let's just start with some --

3 let's just start with some basics. How did you support

4 yourselves? It's not a trick question. It's just

5 conversation.

6 A. We don't support ourselves. The Lord God supports

7 us and sustains us.

8 MR. PARKS: In other words, you panhandle. The Lord

9 leads people to lay a dollar or two in your palm now and

10 then? Is that right?

11 A. The Lord provides for us. He sustains us.

12 MR. PARKS: How about recycling aluminum cans in San

13 Diego?

14 A. The Lord mightily sustains us and provides for us.

15 MR. PARKS: So, I take it, through that answer, that

16 you guys were recycling aluminum cans in San Diego.

17 A. No. That's your accusations, and you are -- you

18 are --

19 MR. ROSS: Nothing against the law with doing it.

20 A. That's your accusation.

21 MR. PARKS: That's not an accusation.

22 A. Yes, it is.

23 MR. PARKS: Because there's no crime behind

24 recycling.

25 A. But that's your accusation.

 36

1 MR. ROSS: There's no crime with, really,

2 panhandling either.

3 A. The Lord provides for us mightily.

4 MR. ROSS: So where did he provide for you, again,

5 San Diego?

6 A. The Lord put upon the hearts of his humble followers

7 to give of their substance. In every instance, he works upon

8 the hearts of his humble followers to give of their

9 substance, and that's how we're provided for.

10 MR. PARKS: Well, you know, Immanuel, like I said, I

11 think that you've been around. You've been arrested a couple

12 of times. We think you're trying to lay the ground --

13 A. Joseph Smith was arrested --

14 MR. PARKS: Excuse me?

15 A. -- almost 50 times.

16 MR. PARKS: Yes, he was. Well, you're kind of

17 laying the groundwork for the state mental hospital, as

18 opposed to prison. And, you know, it would have worked

19 except for one thing. You have been contacted by the police

20 several times, and each time you've lied about who you were

21 and who Elizabeth was. That gives more than ample evidence

22 that you have --

23 A. Do you think I want to go -- do you think I want to

24 go to a mental hospital? Do you think that's what I want?

25 MR. PARKS: Yes, because otherwise you're going to

 37

1 go to prison and die there.

2 A. I want -- a mental hospital to me is a worse thing

3 to have happen --

4 MR. ROSS: Do I think that you have any compassion

5 for that family right now? No?

6 A. A mental hospital, to me, would be a worse thing to

7 have happen to me than prison.

8 MR. PARKS: Well, I wouldn't worry about it.

9 A. But, in my mind, the Lord -- I -- I'm willing to

10 suffer whatever the Lord God will. If either -- either one

11 of those things won't be without great suffering for me, for

12 Hepzibah, for Shear Jashub.

13 MR. ROSS: Elizabeth?

14 A. Shear Jashub. All of us are going to suffer greatly

15 through this because we've been taken and we've been

16 separated as a family.

17 MR. ROSS: What does Shear Jashub mean?

18 A. A remnant will return.

19 MR. ROSS: A remnant somewhere? Is that from --

20 A. From Isaiah.

21 MR. ROSS: From Isaiah?

22 A. It means a remnant will return.

23 MR. ROSS: Where? Will return where?

24 A. The remnant of the Lord's children will return unto

25 him. A remnant means that -- that many --

 38

1 MR. ROSS: I just -- it's an interesting name for a

2 kid that's been kidnapped. That's all I'm thinking. Shear

3 Jashub, the remnant will. That's an interesting name for a

4 15-year-old girl that was kidnapped from her home --

5 A. It is --

6 MR. ROSS: -- at knife-point.

7 A. Because I'm foreassigned and a portent to the world,

8 and so is she.

9 MR. ROSS: You're what?

10 A. She is foreassigned and a portent to the world. Her

11 being delivered out of the world was a sign to the world that

12 the Lord is making bear his holy arm in the eyes of all

13 nations, and it did stir the whole world in ways that I never

14 thought or dreamed that it would, because it's God's work and

15 not mine.

16 MR. ROSS: So that must be a pretty big power trip,

17 then, to know that you had some part in it?

18 A. It's not. No. It's very humbling. It's very

19 humbling because I'm nothing and it's a testimony.

20 MR. ROSS: That you created all this?

21 A. I didn't create anything.

22 MR. ROSS: You had a hand in it?

23 A. That's a testimony. It's God's hand, not mine.

24 That's a testimony to me that God is all-powerful and

25 almighty. I'm nothing. I'm nothing. All I can do is obey

 39

1 his spirit and be obedient to what he asks me to do and then

2 be -- and then be amazed.

3 MR. ROSS: Did God tell you to have sex with her?

4 MR. PARKS: Let's back -- that's a really rude

5 question. Did God tell you to take this girl for your wife?

6 A. He did.

7 MR. PARKS: He did?

8 A. He did.

9 MR. PARKS: And where did he manifest that to you?

10 A. By his Holy Spirit.

11 MR. PARKS: When did he manifest that to you? Would

12 it be the day you worked on the Smart house?

13 A. The day is immaterial.

14 MR. PARKS: No, it's not.

15 A. It is immaterial. It is immaterial. What's

16 important is that he did command me and he did deliver her

17 out of the world and out of Babylon.

18 MR. PARKS: But we're very curious as to when he

19 made this apparent to you through the Holy Spirit, that you

20 were to take Esther to be your wife. It's really -- that's

21 nothing to be --

22 A. To receive her as my wife.

23 MR. PARKS: That's certainly nothing to be ashamed

24 of.

25 A. He delivered her out of the world and commanded that

 40

1 I receive her as my wife.

2 MR. PARKS: Yeah. And when did he make that

3 commandment?

4 A. You're --

5 MR. PARKS: Was it in the fall?

6 A. That -- the date mattereth not.

7 MR. PARKS: The date matters to me.

8 A. Well, I don't know the date. I can't give you a

9 date.

10 MR. PARKS: I think you're being really rude by not

11 answering such a simple question. It's not even a trick

12 question. It's not designed to entrap you into anything.

13 A. You know what? Every single one of your questions

14 are trick questions, and every single one of your questions

15 are meant to entrap me. And you know and you're lying.

16 MR. PARKS: Okay. Here's a question.

17 A. You're lying.

18 MR. PARKS: Here's a question that's very direct.

19 MR. PARKS: Okay?

20 A. You just -- you feel very justified in your lies

21 because you think you're doing a good thing, but yet, when

22 you -- and you accuse me of lying because I feel directed in

23 what I'm doing. And because you feel directed in what you're

24 doing, you feel justified in lying to me and deceiving me.

25 MR. PARKS: I'm not lying.

 41

1 A. Interesting.

2 MR. PARKS: Or deceiving you.

3 A. Yes, you are.

4 MR. PARKS: What have I lied to you about?

5 MR. ROSS: We have asked you pretty direct

6 questions.

7 A. Yes. I know you have. But then you come back and

8 you say things like -- well, never mind. I don't want to

9 accuse and blame you either. I'm just saying, you know what

10 I'm talking -- you know exactly what I'm talking about.

11 MR. PARKS: You're a very interesting person to me

12 because I've been talking to your mom and to your brother

13 Tim, to your daughter, to your son Travis. I've been talking

14 to a lot of people about you, and, you know, in all the

15 people that I've ever met in 25 years of police work, you are

16 the only person that ever actually read the Bible and then

17 sold all of his worldly possessions and gave the money to the

18 poor. You're actually the only guy that I've ever met that

19 has done that. You're the only one. You don't think I find

20 that fascinating?

21 A. I think now you've changed your tactics to use

22 flattery because, awhile ago, you said that I was completely

23 false and that I'm -- and tried to accuse me of being

24 anything but a true servant of Lord or doing anything but

25 being obedient to the Lord but rather just someone who is out
 42

1 to satisfy whatever.

2 MR. PARKS: Carnal lust?

3 A. Carnal lust. You're accusing me of just wanting to

4 satisfy carnal lust.

5 MR. PARKS: Well, that's because --

6 A. And being -- and being -- just being --

7 MR. PARKS: Well, hear me out --

8 A. This is what you accuse me of. Now, that tactic

9 hasn't worked, so now you're going to use flattery and say,

10 Oh, you're the only person I.

11 MR. PARKS: Well, hear me out.

12 A. know who has done this.

13 MR. PARKS: Well, hear me out. Hear me out. You've

14 got to understand -- you do understand that you're under

15 arrest?

16 A. I do.

17 MR. PARKS: And you are not free to leave.

18 A. I do.

19 MR. PARKS: And that potentially these charges could

20 keep you in custody for the rest of your natural life.

21 A. It mattereth not.

22 MR. PARKS: It doesn't matter to you?

23 A. It mattereth not. As long as I'm being obedient to

24 the Lord, whatsoever I suffereth for him, it mattereth not.

25 MR. PARKS: Okay. You have chosen --

 43

1 A. Death, prison or death, prison or death, it

2 mattereth not.

3 MR. PARKS: I know that you're very --

4 A. Also Paul spent much of his life in prison.

5 MR. PARKS: You're very committed. Okay. You're

6 obviously very committed. You obviously strongly believe

7 that the Holy Spirit has moved you to do these things by

8 taking Elizabeth, and God delivered her to you to be your

9 wife. We've also covered things -- we have covered things

10 about how Jesus Christ does not lie. The prophets of God

11 do not lie, and they are proud to stand up for their actions

12 and answer questions. You are here accused of aggravated

13 kidnapping and aggravated sexual assault. Okay? And we are

14 here -- Isaiah, we are here to listen to you and to listen to

15 your story.

16 A. You're saying -- you're saying that they don't

17 lie.

18 MR. PARKS: No. Don't get -- don't get off on that

19 tangent right now. You hear me out. We are here to listen

20 to your story and your explanation, and you keep sending us

21 off to the ozone. We ask simple, direct questions. The

22 question is, did you enter Elizabeth Smart's house?

23 A. You make simple, direct accusations.

24 MR. PARKS: And we want a simple, direct denial or

25 admittance. That's it. You know the jury is going to listen

 44

1 to these proceedings, and we're being recorded right now.

2 A. Uh-huh.

3 MR. PARKS: The jury is going to listen, and they

4 are going to say to themselves, If he had nothing to hide and

5 he really believed he was a prophet, why didn't he answer the

6 most basic and simple of questions?

7 A. Okay. Why didn't Jesus?

8 MR. PARKS: We are not talking about Jesus. You are

9 not Jesus.

10 A. I am not Jesus.

11 MR. PARKS: We are talking about Immanuel.

12 A. I am his servant, and I pattern my life after him.

13 MR. ROSS: Jesus didn't take any kids out of their

14 homes during --

15 A. He --

16 MR. ROSS: -- in the middle of the night.

17 A. He is the God of the Old Testament.

18 MR. PARKS: Excuse me. Jesus didn't take a wife.

19 A. He is the God -- that's what you say.

20 MR. PARKS: That's what I say. That's what the

21 scriptures say.

22 MR. ROSS: That's what the Bible says.

23 A. No. If you know --

24 MR. PARKS: Are you telling me Jesus was married?

25 A. If you know Mormon theology, exaltation is -- is --

 45

1 is having -- is -- the highest degree of the celestial

2 kingdom is having more than one wife, and no one -- and

3 that's what the prophet Joseph Smith taught very clearly, and

4 it's throughout the doctrines of the church, that no man can

5 receive the highest degree of the celestial kingdom except he

6 receive the law of -- of -- celestial marriage, which is --

7 which is plurality of wives. Therefore Christ had to have

8 more than one -- had to have a wife and more than one wife.

9 MR. PARKS: Well, that's not contemporary theology.

10 A. It's -- it's very contemporary. It's throughout the

11 church.

12 MR. ROSS: I've never heard that before.

13 MR. PARKS: Yet throughout the Mormon Church that

14 they believed that all marriages had to be consensual. Is

15 that not true?

16 A. And it was consensual. It was consensual.

17 MR. ROSS: Did Christ take any wives by holding a

18 knife to their throat during the middle of the night?

19 A. It was consensual.

20 MR. PARKS: In the throat in the middle of the night

21 with threats against her family was consensual?

22 A. Christ is God of the Old Testament, and so you don't

23 want to let me talk about scriptures, but then you come right

24 back with them.

25 MR. PARKS: I don't want to talk about the

 46

1 scriptures.

2 MR. ROSS: We don't want the talk about the

3 scriptures, but you keep bringing it up.

4 A. You come right back at me with the scriptures.

5 MR. ROSS: We ask you a question like --

6 A. I can't answer you.

7 MR. PARKS: -- how did you get in the Smart house?

8 God delivered him to me.

9 A. I can't answer -- I can't answer you any other way

10 than what the Lord God Almighty puts into my heart to say.

11 That's all I can do.

12 MR. ROSS: So he's telling you to play games with

13 us?

14 A. He is telling me to give you the truth.

15 MR. ROSS: Well, the truth would be, when we ask you

16 a question like, where have you been for the past nine months

17 with Elizabeth Smart?

18 Well, I have been to this canyon, where I lived in

19 this camp or I lived in San Diego.

20 A. I can answer that -- I can answer that -- I can

21 answer that very truthfully to say that the Lord -- that

22 she's been with us and that the Lord God Almighty has been

23 with us mightily.

24 MR. ROSS: Where have you been with her?

25 A. Throughout the land.

 47

1 MR. PARKS: Can you give us like -- be more

2 specific?

3 A. The Lord takes us from place to place.

4 MR. PARKS: Where has the Lord taken you so far in

5 the past nine months with her? And when I say "where," I

6 don't mean a general answer. I'm looking for something, you

7 know, like the name of a city or state or, you know, location

8 or, you know, what canyon, what campsite.

9 A. I can only answer -- I can only answer according to

10 what the Lord God Almighty puts into my heart to say, and

11 that's being truthful. That's being truthful, that he has

12 taken us --

13 MR. ROSS: That poor girl.

14 A. He has taken us with a mighty hand throughout the

15 land.

16 MR. PARKS: How is it -- was it the Lord God

17 Almighty that had to tether Elizabeth in the camp to keep her

18 from running away? Was that the Lord's idea, or was that

19 your idea?

20 MR. ROSS: Or is that something that Christ does

21 when he wants to take a wife.

22 MR. PARKS: Do you have to tie your wife to a tether

23 to keep her there? Is that your idea, or was that the Holy

24 Spirit's?

25 A. The whole world is in bonds and chains, the bonds

 48

1 and chains of inequity, great wickedness and idology.

2 MR. PARKS: That's a tangent.

3 A. The whole world --

4 MR. PARKS: You had to think about that one for a

5 minute.

6 A. The whole world --

7 MR. ROSS: Yeah.

8 A. The whole world.

9 Q. Didn't you?

10 A. The whole world is in the bonds and chains of

11 idolatry and great wickedness.

12 MR. PARKS: You had to -- you had to process that

13 question a little bit before you could answer it.

14 A. It's only -- it's only -- you know what it is? It's

15 taking time -- it's taking time --

16 MR. ROSS: It's you trying not to take

17 responsibility for it.

18 A. It's taking time to listen to God --

19 MR. PARKS: It's you trying to evade.

20 A. And let him speak --

21 MR. PARKS: It's you trying to evade the question is

22 what it is.

23 A. It's the Lord God -- giving the Lord God time.

24 MR. ROSS: Did the Lord tell you -- did the Lord

25 tell you to tie her up at the campsite?

 49

1 A. It's giving the Lord God Almighty time to speak, to

2 take -- to pause and let him speak.

3 MR. ROSS: Did the Lord tell you to tie her up at

4 the campsite?

5 A. The whole world -- the whole world is in the chains

6 of idolatry and great wickedness. This is the reality.

7 MR. PARKS: Okay.

8 A. And because of that, great destruction --

9 MR. ROSS: The reality is that for the past nine

10 months --

11 A. Great destructions are coming upon the earth.

12 MR. ROSS: This is worse than Christmas Mass.

13 A. Great destructions are coming upon the earth.

14 MR. PARKS: Great destructions are coming upon you.

15 You know, this is obviously a word salad defense mechanism

16 that you throw up when the questions get really, really

17 tough. Okay? You just start wandering on about the

18 scriptures and stuff, but it's obvious to me -- you talk

19 about tactics and interrogation. When the questions get too

20 tough and uncomfortable, you just start wandering off.

21 A. I've never wandered. I've stuck right straight.

22 MR. PARKS: Did you take Elizabeth Smart out of her

23 house at knife-point?

24 A. Straight is the gate.

25 MR. PARKS: Yes or no.

 50

1 A. Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, and I

2 have stayed on that straight and narrow path. And you talk

3 about wandering? You guys are wandering all over the place.

4 Trying everything and anything to -- to -- to get me to say

5 something false, to say something false, and I will only

6 speak the truth.

7 MR. PARKS: All right. Only speak the truth. Did

8 you take Elizabeth Smart out of her house at knife-point?

9 A. Your --

10 MR. PARKS: Yes or no?

11 A. Your accusations are false.

12 MR. PARKS: Then you did not and you are denying you

13 took Elizabeth out of her house?

14 A. And the teachings of Hugh Nibley, who is a great

15 scholar in the church, he says that Satan will always accuse

16 with the truth.

17 MR. PARKS: You know what I think? I think you're

18 getting awfully uncomfortable now because you keep talking on

19 top of us. This is getting a little too intense for you,

20 isn't it, Immanuel? We are getting to the real hard

21 questions, and you keep retreating into your spiel and your

22 diatribe. Did you take Elizabeth out of the house at

23 knife-point?

24 A. What did Christ --

25 MR. PARKS: Yes or no?

 51

1 A. What did Christ do?

2 MR. PARKS: He didn't take Elizabeth out of the

3 house at knife-point.

4 MR. ROSS: He didn't marry women by holding knives

5 to their throats. He didn't have sex with 15-year-old girls.

6 He didn't tether girls to a campsite to keep them from

7 running away. He didn't lie to police when they asked him

8 who he was it's closing in on.

9 MR. ROSS: He didn't break into peoples' houses.

10 And he wasn't a drunk driver.

11 A. I'm afraid you know little of who Christ is and what

12 he did, because he is God, and he did many things.

13 MR. PARKS: We're not talking about Christ. We're

14 talking about you, Immanuel.

15 MR. ROSS: Brian Mitchell, aka Immanuel David

16 Isaiah.

17 A. His true servants have done and do many things and

18 still do many things that the world will -- will kill them

19 for.

20 MR. PARKS: I hate -- I think we just have to get to

21 the core of the problem here, and the core of the problem is

22 Isaiah.

23 A. Imprison them and keep --

24 MR. PARKS: No. Listen to me. Okay. We're getting

25 to what the real core of the problem is. You. And the real
 52

1 core is you're not a prophet, and you are not a servant of

2 Jesus Christ. You are, indeed, Brian David Mitchell, and you

3 have done a really terrible, terrible thing that you need to

4 get to. You have done something awful.

5 A. I'll tell you, the both of you, you talk about

6 shame, the great shame that will be upon you both --

7 MR. ROSS: Hey --

8 A. For talking the way -- this way to the Lord's true

9 servant.

10 MR. PARKS: You're not the Lord's servant.

11 A. And accusing me in this way.

12 MR. PARKS: You're not if the Lord's servant.

13 A. Great shame. I tell you --

14 MR. ROSS: I don't feel shameful in saying it. I

15 don't have -- I don't feel any shame. Saying you're --

16 A. You will. I say you will.

17 MR. PARKS: You know what --

18 A. I say you will. You will reap great shame and

19 sorrow.

20 MR. PARKS: You are not the Lord's servant.

21 MR. ROSS: If heaven's filled with people like you,

22 I'd be more comfortable in hell. Your story is bullshit.

23 A. You are --

24 MR. ROSS: You took that 15-year-old girl out of her

25 home at knife-point, you took her to a canyon and raped her.

 53

1 A. You are --

2 MR. ROSS: You kept her tied up at the campsite.

3 You traveled around the country for nine months telling her

4 that her name was some bullshit Shear Job Esther Isaiah crap,

5 saying that she was your wife, sealed unto God, and then,

6 when you cop for it, oh, my God, then all of a sudden it's

7 she's been delivered to you by Christ?

8 A. And you're -- and then they gnashed their teeth on

9 Christ in their anger and their accusation against the Lord.

10 They gnashed their teeth on him.

11 MR. PARKS: You are not --

12 MR. ROSS: You tire me.

13 MR. PARKS: -- the servant of the Jesus. You are

14 not. Jesus' servants do not take little girls out of their

15 house --

16 MR. ROSS: You're a child raper.

17 MR. PARKS: -- and have sex with them. Let's face

18 it. You are Brian David Mitchell, and you are a child

19 molester.

20 MR. ROSS: A criminal.

21 MR. PARKS: A criminal who has done criminal acts

22 who cannot pass off his story by talking about Jesus.

23 A. They accused the Lord.

24 MR. PARKS: You know, you are a fraud. You are a

25 fraud, sir.
 54

1 MR. ROSS: You are a hypocrite.

2 MR. PARKS: You are a hypocrite and a fraud, and

3 this is bullshit You are not a servant of Jesus Christ, and

4 you need to get over that.

5 MR. ROSS: You can take take little simple smile off

6 your face, like, you're, you know, some servant of the Lord

7 bullshit and stuff it because we know the truth. The truth

8 is you went into the bedroom at the middle of the night and

9 held a knife to her throat. And here's another thing that I

10 don't think Christ ever did. I don't think he ever

11 threatened to kill little children.

12 A. Suddenly you are --

13 MR. ROSS: Then --

14 A. Suddenly someone who never read the scriptures knows

15 all about the scriptures and the Lord.

16 MR. ROSS: I went to church enough times to know

17 that I never heard any sermons from my -- from my priest

18 saying that, and then Jesus snuck into the bedroom at 2:00

19 o'clock in the morning.

20 A. Most --

21 MR. ROSS: And held a knife to her throat.

22 A. Most churches and sermons and leaders seek for

23 popularity, for power, for gain, for popularity and to

24 satisfy.

25 MR. ROSS: You're off the subject again. You're off

 55

1 the subject again. You're talking about the church. We're

2 talking about Elizabeth.

3 A. That's what the churches do.

4 MR. ROSS: Brian, you're full of shit.

5 MR. PARKS: Brian we're trying to.

6 MR. ROSS: We're talking about you.

7 A. Trying to gain popularity.

8 MR. ROSS: I don't care about the church right now.

9 A. To satisfy lust of the.

10 MR. ROSS: I want to be able to explain --

11 MR. PARKS: Well, wait a minute. I think we just

12 hit a nerve there. Let's talk about lust of the flesh.

13 A. The lust of the flesh are all, all of those things

14 that you say you're heart's upon, other than Jesus Christ.

15 MR. PARKS: You know what, my heart's not upon

16 screwing a 14-year-old girl, virgin.

17 MR. ROSS: Me neither.

18 MR. PARKS: I've never wanted to have sex with a

19 virgin.

20 A. And I never have either, and my heart's not set on

21 that either.

22 MR. PARKS: But you did.

23 A. My heart is not -- I did not.

24 MR. PARKS: You did.

25 A. I did not.
 56

1 MR. PARKS: Did not?

2 A. I did not.

3 MR. PARKS: Did not what?

4 A. Do what you just said. I did not.

5 MR. PARKS: You took a 14-year-old virgin?

6 A. I did not.

7 MR. PARKS: To your campsite, and you had sex with

8 her against her will.

9 A. You're accusing --

10 MR. PARKS: You and Wanda showed her how to do it,

11 and then you made her do it.

12 A. What you're accusing me of --

13 MR. PARKS: And you had to tie her up at the camp.

14 A. What you're accusing me of.

15 MR. PARKS: I'm accusing you of -- look at me. Look

16 at me in the eye. I'm accusing you of being a child molester

17 and rapist.

18 A. And your accusation is false.

19 MR. ROSS: Bullshit.

20 MR. PARKS: Bullshit.

21 MR. ROSS: It's the truth.

22 A. You can say bullshit all you want.

23 MR. ROSS: We are.

24 A. Your accusation is false.

25 MR. ROSS: Guess what? I can say that, and I'm not
 57

1 going to feel any shame over it. You said I'm going to feel

2 shame.

3 A. I know you both. You're lifted up in the pride of

4 your heart --

5 MR. ROSS: You know what, I'm not going to feel any

6 shame at all.

7 A. -- thinking you're righteous, but you're going to

8 feel great shame and great sorrow.

9 MR. ROSS: No. I don't think so. You know the

10 sorrow I feel? The sorrow I feel is for the Smart family.

11 A. The great destruction --

12 MR. ROSS: The sorrow I feel is for the Smart family

13 and a 14-year-old girl who was taken out of her bed.

14 A. I have more compassion --

15 MR. ROSS: Bullshit.

16 A. I have more compassion for that family than --

17 MR. ROSS: Then prove it and tell us the truth.

18 Don't give me this God bullshit I have more compassion --

19 MR. ROSS: Bullshit -- for that family

20 MR. ROSS: Bullshit.

21 A. -- than --

22 MR. ROSS: Then prove it. Tell us the truth.

23 A. And for Shear Jashub Esther Isaiah than you do.

24 MR. ROSS: Tell us the truth.

25 A. I have told you nothing but the truth.

 58

1 MR. ROSS: Tell us the truth.

2 A. I have told you nothing but the truth.

3 MR. PARKS: Brian.

4 MR. ROSS: You haven't told us anything. If you

5 want to show compassion for that family --

6 (Officer pokes defendant.)

7 A. What does this mean? What is this leading to?

8 MR. ROSS: This is me telling you that I think

9 you're full of shit.

10 A. Yeah? And what's that going to lead to?

11 MR. ROSS: I don't know.

12 MR. PARKS: You know why I think you're full of

13 shit, Brian? Listen. Hear me out. Do you know what Jesus

14 said about little children? He said that it is better for a

15 man to tie a millstone around his neck and jump in the lake

16 and drown himself --

17 A. And that's why I feel very --

18 MR. PARKS: -- rather than harm one hair --

19 A. That's why I feel so sorry for all of you.

20 MR. PARKS: No.

21 A. That you are doing this to Shear Jashub Esther

22 Isaiah.

23 MR. PARKS: It doesn't matter -- it doesn't matter

24 what we do here.

25 A. What you're doing to her -- what you're -- what

 59

1 you're doing to her --

2 MR. PARKS: I really struck a nerve there, didn't I?

3 A. What you're doing to her -- what you're doing to

4 her.

5 MR. PARKS: That was right out of the Bible.

6 A. What you're --

7 MR. PARKS: You have harmed a girl. You have harmed

8 a child. You have gone against Jesus Christ's written

9 orders.

10 A. You're harming her.

11 MR. ROSS: No.

12 MR. PARKS: No.

13 MR. ROSS: We didn't have sex with her.

14 MR. PARKS: We brought her home to her family. You

15 took a girl --

16 A. You're --

17 MR. PARKS: -- and you harmed her.

18 MR. ROSS: I saw her with her dad. And, guess what?

19 She was crying.

20 MR. PARKS: -- in contradiction to scripture.

21 A. I don't doubt she was crying.

22 MR. ROSS: Why would she be crying? She must be,

23 you know, somewhat distraught after the past nine months of

24 living with you.

25 MR. PARKS: Jesus Christ's --

 60

1 MR. ROSS: Having had to have sex with you. I mean,

2 how often do you shower?

3 MR. PARKS: I mean, you have done a horrible thing,

4 and you're justifying it in your own mind by saying the Holy

5 Spirit did it.

6 A. What the two of you are doing is a sin.

7 MR. PARKS: The scriptures say that you have sinned.

8 A. What you are doing -- what you are doing -- what you

9 are doing is, and what you are doing is.

10 MR. PARKS: You have sinned a great sin.

11 A. I have been obedient unto God Almighty.

12 MR. PARKS: You have sinned against the

13 commandments.

14 A. I have been obedient to God Almighty.

15 MR. ROSS: God told you to have sex with her?

16 A. You have sinned. You're trying to put words in my

17 mouth.

18 MR. ROSS: Did God tell you to have sex with her?

19 A. Your accusations against me are false.

20 MR. ROSS: That's a simple question. Yes or no.

21 Did God --

22 A. You're accusations --

23 MR. ROSS: Tell you to have sex with her?

24 A. I told you -- I told you your accusations against me

25 are false.
 61

1 MR. ROSS: I'm not accusing you. I'm asking you a

2 question.

3 A. Your accusations are false.

4 MR. ROSS: It's a question. Did God tell you to

5 have sex with her?

6 A. Your questions are false.

7 MR. ROSS: Did God tell you to have sex with her?

8 A. Your questions are false.

9 MR. ROSS: Is she the only child that God has ever

10 told you to have sex with?

11 A. Your questions are immaterial. They make no sense.

12 They make no sense.

13 MR. ROSS: If some of the -- then give me an answer.

14 Yes or no?

15 A. Because I never -- I never said God told me to do

16 any such thing, and he never did.

17 MR. PARKS: So, wait a minute. Back up. Back up.

18 MR. ROSS: God never told you to have sex with her?

19 MR. PARKS: God told you to take her as your wife.

20 You told us that just a little while ago.

21 A. Exactly. And that's all I told you.

22 MR. ROSS: So you decided to have sex with her?

23 A. I told you -- I told you --

24 MR. ROSS: Don't face the wall.

25 A. I told you --
 62

1 MR. ROSS: Hang on a second.

2 A. I told you that I was obedient unto the Lord God

3 Jesus --

4 MR. PARKS: And look at us when you talk to us.

5 A. -- in receiving her.

6 MR. ROSS: Why are you shutting your eyes when you

7 talk to us?

8 A. I told you that I was obedient unto the Lord God

9 Almighty in receiving her.

10 MR. ROSS: Okay.

11 A. And to -- as my wife.

12 MR. ROSS: Okay. So God didn't will you to have sex

13 with her, he just told you to receive her as her wife -- as

14 your wife?

15 A. That's all I told you that God told me.

16 MR. ROSS: Okay. So, then, you took it upon

17 yourself to have sex with her?

18 A. Your accusations are false.

19 MR. ROSS: I am asking.

20 A. Your accusations are false.

21 MR. PARKS: So you've never had sex with her?

22 A. Your accusations are false. In the -- in what

23 you're accusing me of, there is no truth.

24 MR. PARKS: So you have not had sex with her?

25 A. In your words -- in your words and what you're

 63

1 accusing me of, there is no truth.

2 MR. PARKS: You know, you're just so full of shit,

3 you can't even look me in the eye when you talk to me. Look

4 me in the eye like a man when you tell me your lies, okay.

5 A. You're --

6 MR. ROSS: You're not looking at him.

7 MR. PARKS: You're not looking at me. Did you have

8 sex with Esther, yes or no, as your wife that God said was

9 okay to do? Did you or did you not?

10 A. What are you -- how are you determining --

11 MR. PARKS: Look me in the eye.

12 MR. ROSS: Don't answer like Bill Clinton. Answer

13 the question. Did you have sex with her?

14 MR. PARKS: You can't even look me in the eye,

15 Brian.

16 MR. ROSS: Now you're -- look up here. Give one of

17 us eye contact when you answer the question.

18 A. Why -- why -- why -- why -- should I submit to your

19 control over me?

20 MR. ROSS: Well, you know what? Because Elizabeth

21 had to submit to your control --

22 A. Why -- why --

23 MR. ROSS: -- for nine months.

24 A. Why should I submit to your accusations?

25 MR. ROSS: Why should Elizabeth have to submit to --

 64

1 A. Your eyes --

2 MR. ROSS: -- your control.

3 A. In your eyes are your accusations --

4 MR. ROSS: Why should Elizabeth submit to your --

5 A. -- your contempt. Your contempt.

6 MR. ROSS: Why should Elizabeth submit to your

7 control?

8 A. Your contempt, your hate, your ridicule, your

9 condemnation.

10 MR. ROSS: You're damn right we condemn guys who

11 have sex with 15-year-old girls.

12 A. And I'm supposed -- I'm supposed to look into your

13 eyes and receive that hate, that condemnation?

14 MR. PARKS: That's because --

15 A. You know, I.

16 MR. PARKS: -- you don't answer.

17 A. You know, I've been looking into both of your

18 eyes.

19 MR. ROSS: No you haven't.

20 A. I have.

21 MR. ROSS: Oh, now you're telling me -- now you are.

22 Okay. So let me ask you this question.

23 A. Why should I submit to your control and look in your

24 eyes when you tell me things?

25 MR. ROSS: Why should Elizabeth submit to your

 65

1 control? Why should Elizabeth submit to your control?

2 MR. PARKS: Just Look at me --

3 MR. ROSS: You talk about control. Why should

4 Elizabeth submit to your control? Why should she leave her

5 house?

6 A. I never controlled her.

7 MR. PARKS: Brian, have you ever had sex with

8 Esther? Yes or no.

9 A. What was your name again?

10 MR. PARKS: Parks.

11 A. Parks.

12 MR. PARKS: Answer the question.

13 A. Parks.

14 MR. PARKS: Did you have sex with Elizabeth?

15 A. Parks.

16 MR. PARKS: Yes or no?

17 A. All I have done has been out of obedience to the

18 Lord God Almighty.

19 MR. PARKS: So, did you have sex with her? Yes or

20 no?

21 A. According the your question, no, I did not.

22 MR. PARKS: You did not?

23 A. I did not.

24 MR. PARKS: She says that you did.

25 A. I did not. According --

 66

1 MR. PARKS: Is she lying?

2 A. Your question is false. I did not.

3 MR. PARKS: You need to defend yourself.

4 A. I did not.

5 MR. PARKS: You did not have sex with Esther? Look

6 me in the eye.

7 A. Parks, I'm looking you in the eye, and I say to your

8 question, no.

9 MR. PARKS: You did not have sex with Elizabeth?

10 A. I say to your question, no.

11 MR. PARKS: Good. Now we're finally getting

12 somewhere. Did you enter Ed Smart's house on June 4? Yes or

13 no? Look me in the eye. Don't go away. Even if it's -- if

14 you want to deny it, that's okay. We want your story. But

15 you keep closing your eyes and refusing to answer. Did you

16 enter Ed Smart's house?

17 A. Your question --

18 MR. PARKS: Yes or no?

19 MR. ROSS: Yes or no? Simple.

20 MR. PARKS: Look me in the eye. Did you or did you

21 not? I want' a denial or I want an admission. Either one is

22 fine with me. Did you enter Ed Smart's house on June 4, in

23 the night? Yes or no, Brian.

24 A. My name is Immanuel.

25 MR. PARKS: Immanuel.

 67

1 A. David Isaiah.

2 MR. PARKS: Open your eyes and look at me. Did you

3 enter Ed Smart's house on June 4, yes or no? Yes or no?

4 It's a yes or no question.

5 MR. ROSS: You know you want to answer. Yes or no?

6 MR. PARKS: If you want to stand on your actions

7 as a prophet of God, it's time to answer. Yes or no?

8 A. You don't respect me as such.

9 MR. PARKS: I do not.

10 A. No, you don't.

11 MR. PARKS: Because you lie to me. You won't even

12 look me in the eye when you lie to me.

13 A. And I have never said that I was a prophet of God.

14 MR. ROSS: No. You said you were a servant of the

15 Lord.

16 A. I said I was a servant of the Lord.

17 MR. ROSS: So, as a servant of the Lord, did you

18 enter Ed Smart's house on the night of June 4 and take

19 Elizabeth from her bedroom at knife-point?

20 A. All of this --

21 MR. ROSS: Yes or no?

22 MR. PARKS: Yes or no? We just want an answer to

23 the question.

24 MR. ROSS: Then we can move on.

25 A. To what.
 68

1 MR. PARKS: It's a yes or no answer.

2 MR. ROSS: Yes or no.

3 MR. PARKS: You're thinking, Brian, you're not

4 answering. Truthful answers don't need to be thought out

5 ahead of time. Every time you look down and close your

6 eyes --

7 A. You know what? Do you know what? I've already

8 answered that question.

9 MR. ROSS: No, you haven't.

10 A. Over and over again.

11 MR. PARKS: No, you have not. You have never once

12 answered the question.

13 A. Yes, I have.

14 MR. PARKS: You have been evasive, and you've gone

15 off on tangents.

16 A. I said that your -- that your question --

17 MR. ROSS: No. Your eyes are shut again.

18 A. I say that your question is an accusation.

19 MR. ROSS: No. The question is, did you, on the

20 night of June 4, go into the the Smart house?

21 A. Your question --

22 MR. ROSS: And take Elizabeth Smart from her

23 bedroom?

24 A. Your question is an accusation.

25 MR. ROSS: The question is a question, nothing more,

 69

1 and it deserves a yes or no answer.

2 A. And I told -- I told you I have already answered you

3 according to the spirit of the Lord Almighty.

4 MR. ROSS: No, you didn't.

5 MR. PARKS: You did not answer the question.

6 MR. ROSS: You didn't answer the question.

7 A. I told you --

8 MR. ROSS: You didn't answer the question.

9 A. I told you I did. I did answer the question.

10 MR. ROSS: No, you didn't. You tell me you answered

11 the question but --

12 A. According to the Lord.

13 MR. ROSS: -- you didn't.

14 A. According to the Lord.

15 MR. PARKS: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

16 A. According the what the Lord Almighty put into my

17 heart.

18 MR. PARKS: Did you just say that you did?

19 A. I said I answered your question according to what

20 the Lord God Almighty put into my heart to say.

21 MR. PARKS: Well, the Lord God Almighty put into

22 your heart nothing, because your answer was evasive.

23 A. You -- that's your accusation, that I was being

24 evasive. I know I'm being truthful.

25 MR. PARKS: No, sir. My accusation is that you are

 70

1 a burglar and child rapist.

2 MR. ROSS: And kidnapper.

3 MR. PARKS: Those are my accusations, and I'm

4 waiting to hear your explanation.

5 A. And I am telling you and testifying to you that I am

6 a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ.

7 MR. PARKS: A servant of the Lord doesn't rape

8 children.

9 A. All that I have done -- all that I have --

10 MR. PARKS: We are giving you every opportunity in

11 the world here --

12 A. I never --

13 MR. PARKS: -- to tell us what happened?

14 A. I never raped anybody.

15 MR. ROSS: So, she consented to it?

16 A. I never raped anybody.

17 MR. ROSS: Did she consent to have sex with you?

18 A. I'm just telling you, I have never raped anybody.

19 MR. ROSS: Okay. So, did she consent to have sex

20 with you?

21 A. I'm telling you, I have never raped anybody. You

22 are accusing me of rape. I'm telling you I have never raped

23 anybody.

24 MR. ROSS: Did you tie her to a tether somewhere so

25 that she wouldn't be able to leave your campsite?

 71

1 A. I have already answered your question.

2 MR. ROSS: No. You didn't answer that.

3 MR. PARKS: You didn't answer the question.

4 A. I've already answered your question according --

5 MR. ROSS: You didn't answer that one.

6 A. -- to what the Lord God Almighty put into my heart

7 to say.

8 MR. ROSS: Did the Lord put it into your heart to

9 tether that girl so she wouldn't be able to run away from

10 you.

11 MR. PARKS: It's a yes or no question, Brian.

12 MR. ROSS: It's a yes or no question.

13 A. No, it's not a yes or no question.

14 MR. PARKS: Yes, it is, Brian.

15 A. No, it's not.

16 MR. ROSS: Did --

17 A. You're saying --

18 MR. ROSS: -- God --

19 A. You're saying --

20 MR. ROSS: -- tell --

21 A. You're saying --

22 MR. ROSS: -- you to tie her down --

23 A. You're saying --

24 MR. ROSS: -- so that she wouldn't --

25 A. You're saying --
 72

1 MR. ROSS: -- run away from you?

2 A. You're saying --

3 MR. PARKS: It's a yes or no question.

4 A. But that's what you're saying.

5 MR. PARKS: It's a yes or no question. You know

6 you're words are now getting into jibberish because, Brian, I

7 think we're getting to you, Hun. We are getting to the very

8 core of you, of Brian Mitchell, who is not -- who is not

9 David Isaiah Immanuel. You know that you're really Brian

10 Mitchell. You know that.

11 A. This is like -- this is like -- this is like Job.

12 MR. PARKS: No, it's not like Job.

13 A. This is like Job.

14 MR. ROSS: You're nothing like him.

15 A. This is like --

16 MR. PARKS: You're not a servant of God.

17 A. This is like Job when his best friends -- and you're

18 not my best friends, of course --

19 MR. ROSS: Job didn't kidnap girls.

20 A. But you'd like me to think you are.

21 MR. ROSS: Job didn't kidnap 14-year-old girls and

22 have sex with them?

23 A. Job -- Job had his best friends come to him to

24 convince him that he had sinned.

25 MR. PARKS: Look at me when I talk to you.

 73

1 (Officer touches defendant's chin.)

2 A. Now, if you -- when you do that, you see, you're

3 assaulting me.

4 MR. PARKS: I am not.

5 A. You're assaulting --

6 MR. PARKS: I just want you to look me in the eye.

7 A. He assaulted me. Now you both physically assaulted

8 me.

9 MR. PARKS: This is assaulting?

10 A. Yes.

11 MR. PARKS: There's no intent.

12 A. You both --

13 MR. PARKS: There's just an intent to get you to

14 look in my eyes.

15 A. No. Both of those were assaults.

16 MR. PARKS: Brian.

17 A. You grabbed my chin, and you --

18 MR. ROSS: You know what else is assault? You know

19 what else is assault?

20 A. -- you poked me.

21 MR. ROSS: Putting a knife to a 14-year-old girl's

22 throat.

23 A. You poked me. You poked me. And he took my chin.

24 MR. ROSS: And you took a knife and held it to

25 Elizabeth's throat and took her out of the house and raped
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1 her and kept her for nine months. You tied her down so she

2 couldn't run away from you.

3 A. Your accusations are false.

4 MR. ROSS: That's not an accusation. That's the

5 truth.

6 MR. PARKS: That's a fact.

7 MR. ROSS: That's a fact.

8 A. Your accusations are false.

9 MR. ROSS: And you want to talk about me doing

10 this --

11 (Officer poking defendant.)

12 A. You're --

13 MR. ROSS: -- when you're taking your dick out and

14 having sex with a 14-year-old girl --

15 A. You're --

16 MR. ROSS: -- against her consent?

17 A. Your accusations are false.

18 MR. ROSS: So she consented to it?

19 A. I have only done what the Lord God Almighty

20 commanded me to do.

21 MR. ROSS: The Lord commanded you to have sex with a

22 14-year-old girl?

23 A. He commanded me to receive Shear Jashub.

24 MR. ROSS: What does that mean, to receive a girl?

25 A. To receive her as my wife.

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1 MR. ROSS: What does that mean to receive her? What

2 does that entail?

3 MR. PARKS: Brian, you're closing your eyes again.

4 A. I can't -- I can't -- I can't talk anything to you

5 about what it entails -- what anything entails beyond what

6 the Lord God puts in my heart to say.

7 MR. ROSS: So, when he says receive her, what do you

8 do? If God tells you to receive her as your wife, what do

9 you do? What do you do?

10 A. You're asking me -- you're asking me to talk about

11 things which are sacred and holy.

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