“The 2-Hour Job Search”*

& Informational Interviewing

Creating The Prioritized List of 40+ Firms and

learn how to reach out to Alum

Career Management
*Materials here used with permission by Steve Dalton
 Text:
“The 2-Hour Job Search”*
By Steve Dalton, Duke Fuqua Career Services

Get it, Read it, and Do it! Well worth the time and money!
Career Management 2
*Materials here used with permission by Steve Dalton
 The Job Search
• Big Picture: Prioritize, Contact, Recruit

• Seven Steps to Job Hunting:

– Choose what you want to do
– Write a Resume
The Two – Prioritize Target Employers
Hour
Job
– Contact Target Employers
Search – Recruit advocates to provide internal referrals
– Interview
– Select an Offer

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 Goal Today
• Learn tools to help develop the LAMP list

• Inspire you that this is not only possible, but

very useful and urgent!

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 Why 40+ Companies?

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 “LAMP” Company List
• List, Alumni, Motivation, Posting
– Systematic, 70-minute process to generate, 40+ priortized,
ranked targeted firms

• Trends suggests “Off Campus” job hunting will be more

the norm
– You must learn this skill for your future career path

You need a list to be organized and efficient

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 “LAMP” Time Frame
Time Required
List of Possible Employers 40 minutes
Identify Alumni 10 minutes
Assess Motivation 5 minutes
Classify Postings 15 minutes
TOTAL 70 minutes

The goal: Generate ~40 targeted, prioritized firms in the 70-minute time frame

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 International Students
• What about International Students needing
Sponsorship?

– Two sites help identify sponsoring firms:

• GoinGlobal H1-B Plus tool (paid – BYU has access)
• myvisajobs.com (free)

– If firm sponsored last year, they are more likely to

sponsor this year

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 Let’s Start
• First – create an Excel Workbook
• This will be your LAMP list:
List Alumni Motivation Posting H1-B Sponsor

International
Students add
“Sponsor” column

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 LAMP

LAMP - List
• Four key sources to generate the list:
– Dream employers,
– Alumni,
– Posting Search,
– Trend Following

• Goal is to generate a list of 40+ firms in 40

minutes!

Let’s get started……..

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 LAMP

Dream Employers – LAMP List

• Firms/Employers you have always aspired to join
• Systematically add peer / competitors to your list

• Three main sources for generating competitor lists:

• HBLL: LexisNexis Database, Mint Global, Factiva
– http://guides.lib.byu.edu/company

• Yahoo Finance! – “Industry” tab is really good for ID’ing firms

• FinViz.com: Financial Investing page – sort on sectors or industries

• LinkedIn – similar function – not as good

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 Example – LexisNexis – Intel LAMP

• 46 Peer/Competitors for Intel – Instant List!

• Plus: Tons of data here – look on left hand sidebar
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 YahooFinance - Industry

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 FinViz.com – Financial Site

Thousands of companies across hundreds of industries

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FinViz.com – “Maps” – S&P 500 arranged by industry and size

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 LAMP

Alumni
List – Approach #2
• Identify Firms where you have Alumni

• Great tactic for targeting:

– Specific Geography Preference
– Uncertain on career you want to pursue

• Copy any employer that looks interesting

• Tools:
– IS Career Explorer Skills tab
– LinkedIn (1st Choice) Example Next Page……
– Alumni Directory
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 Example – Alumni - LinkedIn LAMP

• Suppose you are interested in the San Francisco Bay Area and FINANCE Alum:

Sort:
• LinkedIn/
• Search Bar:
• Brigham Young University
• Click on “Alumni” LHS

Results:
• 418 Finance Alumni
• Dozens of Firms

Copy down any employer/firm that looks interesting at this stage

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 LAMP
Alumni – BYU Alumni Database
• Suppose you are interested in MBAs in Dallas, Texas:

Alumni Database
Sorting Criteria:
• Country/State/City
• Academic Degree
• Company
• Industry
• Jobs
• Date
• Gender

Sometimes better,
Sometimes worse
than LinkedIn

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 LAMP
Posting
List – Approach #3
• Select possible firms from job search engines
• Goal: Find firms who are hiring NOW
• Target specific Job functions or Geographies

• Source Tools:
• Indeed.com – Probably the most comprehensive
• BYU Handshake
• Twitter
• LinkedIn Jobs
• Monster.com
• Vault.com
• Internmatch.com
• Jobsmatch.us
• Company Websites (BestBuy.com/careers)

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 LAMP
Example - Posting

Indeed.com:
Two Inputs:
• What?
• Where?

Results:
• “MBA Finance”, “Bay
Area”:
• 700+ Job Postings
• Details – firm,
description, time
posted, reviews,
etc.

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 LAMP

Trend
List – Approach #4

• Goal: Identify new/unknown firms and what they’re doing

• Useful to identify smaller firms trying to get their name out

• Can find critical information on:

• What sectors/industries are hiring
• Where/how the job market is changing
• Which organizations are best positioned to capitalize on shifts

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 LAMP
Example - Trending

Method:
• Do a “Google Search” on any
Industry or function and add the
word “trends” in the search bar

• Click on interesting links, paying

attention to any new firms/industries
mentioned. Add these firms to your
list

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 LAMP

You have ~40+ firms listed, now what?

• First, congrats! You’ve finished the hardest part of the “Two
Hour Job Search”

• On your spreadsheet, sort alphabetically

– Eliminate any “double counts” of firms

• Step “L” is done of “LAMP” – congratulations!

List Alumni Motivation Posting
Altera

• On to “A” in LAMP - Alumni - next page… Applied Materials

Cisco
Intel
ST Micro
Xilinx
etc.
etc.

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 LAMP

LAMP - Alumni
• The key to getting hired – internal advocacy

• “Alumni” – anyone who advocates for you,

does not have to be from your school

Let’s get started…..

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 LAMP

How do I find Alumni for my 40 firms?

• Easy – Focus!
– Only interested if they have alumni – no research yet!

• When we did Alumni search in “List” – we were searching for

Firms…..now we will be searching for Alumni that are on our list

• On LinkedIn, similar to List Approach #2:

– Search Bar – type “Brigham Young University “ Select “Alumni” left hand
side menu
• Or any other institution you are associated with – graduate preferred
– Type in Company Name for search criteria
– On spreadsheet, simply put a “Yes” or “No” whether they have alum there
– At this stage you do NOT have to copy Alum information List Alumni Motivation Posting
Altera Y
Applied Materials Y
Cisco Y
Intel Y
ST Micro N
Xilinx Y
etc. N
Career Management etc. N 25
 LAMP

LAMP - Motivation
• Motivation is the most important factor in ranking
your target firms to work through

• We will use a relative scoring system, 1 to 5

– Measures your personal motivation to pursue a firm

• This will help you work through your list in the most
efficient manner

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 LAMP

Example - Motivation
List Alumni Motivation Posting
Altera Y 3
Applied Materials Y 4
Cisco Y 4
Intel Y 5
ST Micro N 1
Xilinx Y 3
etc. N 3
etc. N 2

The Key Question to score:

• “How hard you are willing to work to land a job at this firm?”

Assign your personal motivation score of 1 to 5 to each of your firms

• (1 = lowest motivation, 5 = highest)

Career Management
Let’s do the exercise….. 27
 LAMP

LAMP - Postings
• We are interested in who is hiring NOW

• Big Picture:
– L: List of Target Firms
– A: Alumni are a proxy for who will help you
– M: Motivation is a proxy for your willingness to do the work
– P: Postings is a proxy for URGENCY

• The most important criteria to sort the Top 40 is Motivation,

the 2nd is Postings
– Internationals probably will sort by Sponsorship 1st, then Motivation.

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 LAMP
Postings - Methodology
• Do this wrong, you will burn hours from distraction
– We are looking for good information, not perfect, and not drilling down into job reqs at this
time

• Use Indeed.com – start with “Company+BSIS+Function+Job Level”

– “Intel, MISM, Information Systems, Internship”
– Work your way down per the box below

• Key questions you are answering:

– Are they hiring right now?
– If so, is it for positions I am interested in?

POSTING SCORING
4 "Company + MBA + Keyword + Job Level"
3 "Company + MBA + Keyword"
2 "Company + MBA"
1 "Company"
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 LAMP
Example - Posting

Typed in:
“Cisco MBA Marketing Intern”
• 2 Postings
Career Management • Would score this a “4” 30
 Note for International Students
• To complete your LAMP list:
– Go into GoinGlobal.com OR myvisajobs.com
– Input each firm and job function to see if they petitioned for H1-B
– If they did, place a “Y” in your H1-B column, a “N” if not for each of your
firms
– When it comes to sorting your LAMP list – H1-B visa column will be your
first sort

• We won’t take time during this workshop to do this

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 LAMP
LAMP List – Completed!
List Alumni Motivation Posting
Intel Y 5 4
Cisco Y 4 4
Applied Materials Y 4 3
Xilinx Y 3 2
Altera Y 3 2
ST Micro N 3 4
etc. N 2 3
etc. N 2 2
etc. N 2 2
etc. N 2 2
etc. N 2 1
etc. N 1 3
etc. N 1 2
etc. N 1 1

Once the Posting score is loaded, sort by:

• First, Motivation
• Second, Posting
• Third, Alumni
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After the LAMP List, Now what?

Informational Interviewing:
Recruiting Advocates

Rick Patterson
Career Services

33
Purpose of Informational Interviewing

• Build internal advocacy inside a firm

• Gain advice/recommendations
• Build mentor relationships
• Learn about
industries/careers/jobs/firms/cultures…
• In a word….networking!

34
 Key Points in Contacting Alum
Initial Email Example – 2 Hr. Job Search
Subject: BYU BSIS Alum seeking your advice

Dear Mr. Jones,

My name is Ryan Smith, and I am a first year BYU BSIS student who found
your information on LinkedIn. May I have 20 minutes to ask you about your
[experience with IBM]? I am trying to learn more about [Dev] careers at
[technology] companies [in North Carolina], and your insights would be very
helpful.

I recognize this may be a busy time for you, so if we are unable to connect by
email I’ll try to reach you next week to see whether that is more convenient.

Thank you for your time,

Ryan
35
 How to do Informational Interviewing
• Basic Principles
– Goal: Build Rapport – Build a Relationship – get Referred!.....Learn!
– Intellectual Curiosity and Interest!
– Preparation – do your homework!
– “EQ” is crucial
– Show lots of Sincere Gratitude
– IS Candidate (interviewer) owns the info interview (diff than Real)
– DO NOT – EVER:
• Ask for a job
• Talk a majority of the time – The less you talk, the better your outcome
• Take more time than you requested (unless invited)
– DO:
• Ask about the other person’s experiences – career, company, advice
• Ask if there are others you could talk to - referrals
36
 What is EQ?*
• Five Basic Skills:
– Self Awareness:
• Knowing one’s emotions, strengths, weaknesses, drives, values, goals
– Self Regulation:
• Controlling or redirecting disruptive emotions and impulses
– Motivation:
• Being driven to achieve for the sake of achievement
– Empathy:
• Considering other’s feelings especially when making decisions
– Social Skill
• Managing relationships to move people in desired directions
37
* “What makes a Leader?” Daniel Goleman, On Emotional Intelligence, HBR’s 10 Must Reads 2015
 Information Interview
• 20 Minute Networking Meeting – Get it!
– Authors: Marcia Ballinger, Nathan Perez

• Five step process for Info Interviewing

• Short, Powerful, Easy

• Builds Trust and Credibility

• Buy the Book!

38
 “Small Talk”
• “Small Talk” can be
really important “Big
Talk”
• Help for starting
conversations
• Great for International
students
• Increase your
confidence
39
 The Five Steps to 20MNM

Great First Impression 2-3 Minutes

Great Overview 1 Minute
Great Discussion 12-15 Minutues
Great Ending 2 Minutues
Great Follow Up After the Meeting

40
 Great First Impression
• If F2F: Start with a smile, a firm handshake and look in
the eyes
• Thank the person for meeting – genuine!
• Note a connection if possible
• Tell them the agenda for today’s 20 min meeting
– Agenda:
• “Bob, I need just 20 minutes of your time. I’ll go over a
brief overview of my situation, and then ask you a few
questions as it relates to my job search.”

41.
 Great Overview (~1 Minute)
• Simple overview like:
– “Here is a quick overview of my situation: I have an UG
degree in X, and worked Y years with [Z firm] as a [blank], and
desire to pursue a career in [B] with an emphasis in [C].

42.
 Great Discussion (12-15 min)
• Five Questions in total
• The 1st 3 Questions will be your research & curiosity:
– Unique and customized to the person
– Some examples:
• “Mary, I noticed from your LinkedIn profile that you were a career changer
early on. You went from linguistics to a career in business with your firm.
Might you have any advice for me attempting to do the same thing?”
• “John, I read that your company is starting a new division with new
product X. Has that had any impact on you and your group, and if so,
how?
• Goal: ask thoughtful, sincere, insightful questions to show
you have done homework, and are thoughtful and
organized – build trust and credibility!
43.
 Great Discussion (cont)
• Question #4 – Ask for referrals:
– “Is there anyone else in [product development] that would be
good to talk to?”
– “Do you know of anyone from your [work on the engineering
conference] that would be a useful contact?”
– “You used to work for [Company X] – are there former
colleagues there whom I should touch base with?

• Goal: Get referred!

– Your gracious attitude, EQ, and your preparation are key!
– Strive to gain 3 more contacts in every Info Interview
44.
 Great Discussion (cont)
• Question #5:
– “How can I help you?”

• Networking is giving, as well as taking – few ask this!

• Some ways to help:

– Contacts – refer your classmates for special jobs/skills
– Articles – send a relevant article
– Volunteer for something – to help at a conference, etc.

45.
 Great Ending (2 minutes)
• Review action items, express gratitude, and wrap up!
– “Bob, thank you so very much for your time. I will reach out to
Mary and let you know how it went.”
– “Jim, thank you for your time, this has been invaluable to me.
And thank you for introducing me to Paul. I look forward to
your introduction, and will report back on our meeting.”

• Things to express gratitude for:

– Expertise
– Time
– Wisdom
– Suggestions
46.
– Their willingness to help you at all
 Great Follow Up (After the Meeting)
• Keep track of everything….EVERYTHING!
– Phone calls – when, who, what
– Meeting dates
– All correspondences (include time of contact)
– Your follow up messages

• Send a thank you note or email no later than 24 hours after your
meeting

• Building relationships take time and notes/details will impress

those you are trying to impress
– Rule of thumb, stay in touch once a quarter unless there is time sensitive
info or the contact welcomes it
– This does NOT apply for following up with recruiters, etc.
 2 Hour Job Search – TIARA Framework

Phase 1: Small Talk – build Rapport

Phase 2: Tiara Framework – Question phase

Phase 3: Next Steps – closure, Recommend requests

48
 Discussion
Phase 1: Small Talk
• Some Small Talk Questions:

– Would you tell me a bit about your background, and how

you came to work for Company X?
My
favorite
• A gauge on all business, or personable? How does the person
answer it (non-verbal queues)

– What Projects are you working on right now? (Shows

interest in the type of work he/she does, and helps you
gauge his/her passion)

• Primary Goal with Small Talk – Build Rapport

Career Management 49
 Discussion

Phase 2: Q&A – The TIARA Method

• TIARA & Sample Questions:
– Trends: What trends are impacting your business right now?
– Insights: What’s been your most valuable experience there, and why?
– Advice: What can I do right now to best prepare for a career in this field?
– Resources: What resources should I be sure to look into next?
– Assignments: Which projects are most common/important in your work?

• Framework Goal: Questions shift in tone and depth to

turn the contact from a stranger into an advocate!
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 Next Steps
Phase 3 - Next Steps
• If you got a referral – Congrats, you know what to do!

• If you did not get a referral – use the “Two Step Close” process:

“Our time is up, but thank you so much for your time today – you’ve given me a lot to think
about, and it sounds like you’re working for a great organization.
I’m going to take a few days to process all of the information you’ve shared. If, on reflection,
it seems like your organization and I may make a good mutual fit, is it OK to reach back out to you
to get your recommendations for how best to proceed from here?”

– If he/she gives you anything to do…do it!

• When you follow up a few days later, and still they are stonewalling, you can then ask:
– “Is there anyone else in the organization you could recommend I speak to in order to build my
network there?”
• There is nothing to lose now – you are down to your last straw – go for it!

Career Management 51
 Good Resources

“TIARA” Framework www.InformationalInterviewArticles.com

52
 Homework Assignment
• Get the book “2 Hour Job Search” by Steve
Dalton

• Read it, and understand the principles

• Will learn also how to reach out to alumni and

conduct informational interviews

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 Agenda
• Off Campus Advantages
• Job Hunt Process – 7 Steps
• Purpose of Informational Interviewing
• How to write an email to reach out
• EQ – Emotional Intelligence
• Some Frameworks
– 20MNM
– 2 Hour Job Search
• Q&A

Career Management 54
 Off Campus - Advantages

• Not limited to relatively few “On Campus” firms

• Build skills that you will use your entire career
– Networking in your company as well as outside
• Scope of your people network exponentially larger
• Scope of your business acumen exponentially larger
• Give you confidence in the future to make career
changes, both voluntarily and involuntarily.

Career Management 55
 The Job Search
• Big Picture: Prioritize, Contact, Recruit

• Seven Steps to Job Hunting:

– Choose what you want to do
– Write a Resume
– Prioritize Target Employers – PRIOR – LAMP LIST
The Two
Hour – Contact Target Employers - TODAY
Job
Search – Recruit advocates to provide internal referrals - TODAY
– Interview
• Behavioral, Technical, Case
– Select an Offer

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 Quote – Determination and Persistence

“Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.

Talent will not; nothing is more common than
unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not;
unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will
not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence
and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan
"press on" has solved and will always solve the problems
of the human race.”
Calvin Coolidge
Career Management 57
 Some EQ Data

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 LAMP

Troubleshooting Tips - List

• What if I can’t list any dream companies because I don’t know what I want to do?
– First, relax, you are in good company! There are many who are in the same boat as you
– Self assessment – finding a way to combine your strengths with your passions
• Strength: If your life depended on you naming a skill you are top 1% in, what would it be?
• Passion: When you read newspapers or Bloomberg, what articles are you most drawn to?
– Combine the two with research in industries/markets that you are naturally drawn to, then
Google the top firms in those areas.

• What if my search yields too few firms?

– Probe deeper on personal level – is it more important to you to be in Dev, or be in North
Carolina? Is it more important to be in a big firm or smaller firm? Etc.
– When the most important aspects of job search are clarified this way, new firms will emerge –
and possibly lesser known, with less competition.

• What if I don’t recognize a firm, should I put them on my list?

– Absolutely. Smaller employers – less competition
– Only a subset of unfamiliar employers will ever be researched

Career Management 59
 Some Troubleshooting Tips - Postings
• My profession has specific job websites outside of Indeed.com. Are they better?
– Test a few – look at the specific websites, and cross check with Indeed.com.
– Generally, Indeed.com is better, but not always.

• Indeed.com does not have postings, but the firm website does?
– Sometimes this happens. Some smaller firms don’t get “googled” enough to show up. It is fine
for right now – we are really looking for easy –to-find posting at this stage. If the firm is a top
target, we can drill into lesser sites (company websites, other job search sites).

• If you search LinkedIn for jobs, it defaults to SimplyHired.com – is this better than
Indeed?
– Study was done – Indeed.com had more listings than the combo LinkedIn/SimplyHired.com
– Indeed.com is faster
– Efficiency/speed reduce distraction factor

• Indeed.com doesn’t find any results for any of my targets?

– Worse case, you’ve wasted ~15 minutes of searching
– Adjust the search criteria – you might be too restrictive on your search
– Adjust the scoring – drop from 5 to a 3: Employer + Key word = 3
– Remember – this is a temperature for urgency – more detailed research can be done after
sorting.
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 A Few Key Principles….
• Create Options for yourself – the 40 Firm LAMP list are your options!

• The People who find the Job Search Process the least stressful:
– Combining their aptitudes with their interests & passions
– What inspires you?

• When you have knowledge, people want to hire you, when you have
knowledge and passion, they want to hire you NOW

• Be creative in the Job Search List – you want options!

– You will begin to think outside the box at sources

• A large target list encourages a look at smaller employers

– ~1% of firms garners vast majority of the competition

• The modern job search most often requires internal advocacy

– Data point: 80% of jobs don’t get posted online – hired via networking before

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 LAMP
Example – Yahoo!Finance - Intel
from Yahoo!Finance:

17 Firms listed
as competitors or
peers

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 LAMP

The Four Sources

Method Benefits Best for Job Seekers who are…
Dream Employers Research scales across • Targeting a specific Industry
multiple employers
Alumni employers Have contacts at every • Targeting a specific role/job
target employer • Geo Restricted
• Undecided on career
• Shy
Posting Search Target employers currently • Targeting a specific role/job
hiring • Geo Restricted
Trend Following Learn about Industries • Switching Careers
while researching • Seeking smaller employers
• Locate less-obvious
employers

Target all four areas to create your LAMP List

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 LAMP

Practice - Alumni
• Goal is to find Firms that have Alumni

• Source: LinkedIn (www.linkedin.com)

– Sort by Geo location and Job Function

• Source: BYU Alumni Database

– https://marriottschool.byu.edu/alumnidirectory/search
• Type “BSIS/MISM” in search box for degree type and then 1 other criteria

• Copy firms that are interesting in your workbook

• Place a “Y” in the Alumni column if there are Alum

You have 10 minutes….Go!

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 Break – 10 minutes

Career Management 65
 LAMP
Practice - Posting
• Goal is to find firms, not research postings
• Sources:
• Indeed.com – Probably the most comprehensive
• BYU Handshake
• MBA Highway
• Twitter
• LinkedIn Jobs
• Monster.com
• Vault.com
• Internmatch.com
• Jobsmatch.us
• Company Websites (BestBuy.com/careers)

• Go to Indeed.com, put in Job Function (example - Consulting) or Industry, and

Location (example – Bay Area)

• Find postings, then list firms of any posting that sounds interesting, and copy
down in your Workbook.

Career Management You have 10 minutes – Go! 66

 LAMP

Practice - Trends
• Goal is to find firms that are trending in your given
function:

• Type in “Data Analytics Trends” (or your function, or a

sector/industry) in Google or some other search engine

• Peruse any link that looks interesting and write down

firms in your Workbook

You have 10 minutes….Go!

Career Management 67
 “LAMP” Company List
• List, Alumni, Motivation, Posting
– Systematic, 70-minute process to generate, 40+
priortized, ranked targeted firms

• According to the Bureau of Labor & Statistics (BLS):

• In 2008, there were 27.5M businesses
• 99.9% of these firms had fewer than 500 employees!
– You don’t need to chase a tiny portion of the pie
– Many large firms don’t need to come to campuses

You need a list to be organized and efficient

Career Management 68
 LAMP
Practice - Dream Firms
• Create a list of Dream Firm(s) and peer/competitors
– Copy them on your Excel Workbook

• Sources:
• HBLL: LexisNexis Database, Mint Global, Factiva
– http://guides.lib.byu.edu/company
» Select “LexisNexis” Database (or Global Mint, or Factiva, etc.)

• Others: Yahoo Finance!, FinViz.com, LinkedIn

• You’ve got 10 minutes….Go!

Career Management 69
 LAMP

Practice - Alumni
• In your workbook under “Alumni”, place a “Y”
or a “N” for each firm on your list
– Source: LinkedIn/Connections/Find Alumni

• At this stage you are not doing research on the

alum, just capturing which firms have Alum

• You have 10 minutes – Go!

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 LAMP

Practice - Motivation
• For each firm, score a 1 to 5 on your personal
motivation to work to get hired by this firm

• Key Question: How hard are you willing to

work to land a job at this firm?

• You have 5 minutes…Go!

Career Management 71
 LAMP

Practice - Postings
• Use Indeed.com , and use the 4 point scoring system, score each firm

• Don’t worry if it’s not perfect – this is the 2nd criteria – also, it’s still early for
many firms on internship postings

• Enter a 1 to 4 score under Postings on your workbook

• You have 15 minutes – Go!

Career Management 72
 Results from this Workshop
• You now have a prioritized targeted list of ~40
Firms for your job search

• You are now ready to reach out and make initial

contact….congrats!

• Anxiety level should be lowered by having

multiple options where to hunt

• Questions?

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