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To Preserve the Possibility of Communal Life and Emancipation

2021

Abstract

Joshua Clover is the author of Riot.Strike.Riot: the New Era of Uprisings (which will be published in German in 2021) as well as many other books and articles. This interview was conducted via email in the Spring of 2020. Dennis Büscher-Ulbrich and Marlon Lieber: Now, for a while it seemed as if a specter was haunting the United States-the specter of Democratic Socialism. Talking heads already hallucinated impending public executions in Central Park-and, indeed, the purges have begun as Chuck D kicked Flavor Flav out of Public Enemy for failing to feel the Bern. Yet, by now the majority of the Democratic Party has decided to cut the Malarkey and closed ranks around Joe Biden in order to exorcize the specter. Do you think that the parliamentary road to socialism remains a valid anticapitalist strategy in 2020 (and has it ever been such, for that matter)? Joshua Clover: I suppose this question pivots on how we define socialism. Is it still the lower stage of communism, a step along the way? None of contemporary anglophone socialism's leading lights seem to think so; they tend to articulate whatever they are calling socialism as the end of the road. Moreover, the imagined course of capitalism→socialism→communism that has been with us at least since "Critique of the Gotha Program," and was a kind of common sense of the worker's movement a century ago, was premised on a historically concrete situation in which industrial production oriented social organization, and worker control of that sector gave onto total expropriation of the expropriators. Is that still true? Is there still a worker's movement in that way? Even if there were, does the hard limit of climate collapse mean that the unfettering of industrial production on which that particular vision of the emancipation from labor was premised is not survivable? To the extent that any of these questions have answers, they all point away from the promise of what we now call socialism as a program of emancipation. It seems more to be a progressive management strategy for capital. It will ease some misery. It will point itself toward managed competition and