Hello,

Thanks for the feedback, however this is the first time we got that feedback?

Maybe you try to walljump to Early, try to stick more on the wall.

From my player experience, switching from a game to another create this feeling of jankiness depending on which game you played before.

But the WJ in Noreya is 100% predictable and I don't see anything that could improve it rather than creating fake hitboxes to have it earlier, as I said try to push a bit more in the wall before jumping back (btw you can WJ on the same wall).

Let me know if this helps, and if not please try to record a video of the game + inputs so I can see what's going on? (btw is the game laggy ?)

I've used the exact same setup in Islets, Hollow Knight, Blasphemous 2, Ori, etc and never seen this issue before. Basically, if you jump towards the wall and press the opposite direction and jump just a few frames earlier, the wall latch does not register; worse, it doesn't even allow me to slide on the wall and instead launches me downwards and away due to me holding the opposite direction expecting to go diagonally upwards. Maybe it needs some kind of input buffering of sorts? I don't feel like it's an input lag kinda issue because the rest of the game is pretty decent.

As a feedback (don't think it can be changed now), noreya's wall jump doesn't feel the best because of how far the launch is from the wall, meaning wall jumping on the same wall is far slower than alternate walls. I guess you guys were going for a more Ori-like horizontal traversal but it doesn't feel good in this game given that most levels are pretty balanced in vertical and horizontal traversal. I enjoyed the dark lady fight but absolutely abhored the worm chases because of how little control I feel I have at any moment. In fact the general theme of my experience so far is that the majority of my deaths are due to getting punished because I jumped too early or too late, which means movement is not fluid and dynamic, but heavily deliberate, kinda like a souls game. Heck, attacking locks you in place on the ground too, so that further solidifies the feeling. Which is weird because the rest of the game plays like a fluid platformer that gives me full control of the character, like Ori or Hollow Knight.

Not that this needs to be changed as it's your vision, but unfortunately it's not the kind of design that I would enjoy. Hopefully this changes once I get used to the controls, though I can't say I'm having fun at this moment.

Btw, feel free to dismiss my feedback. Sometimes you have a vision that you execute for greater reasons and players might not always "get it" in the grand scheme of things. I'll treat this game as a git gud ordeal, no worries! :D

Originally posted by frostee:

Btw, feel free to dismiss my feedback. Sometimes you have a vision that you execute for greater reasons and players might not always "get it" in the grand scheme of things. I'll treat this game as a git gud ordeal, no worries! :D

Sure I won't "kill my game" for one comment, but it's always interesting to understand the origin of the problem because maybe that's something no-one ever felt/explained before !

Originally posted by frostee:

I've used the exact same setup in Islets, Hollow Knight, Blasphemous 2, Ori, etc and never seen this issue before. Basically, if you jump towards the wall and press the opposite direction and jump just a few frames earlier, the wall latch does not register; worse, it doesn't even allow me to slide on the wall and instead launches me downwards and away due to me holding the opposite direction expecting to go diagonally upwards. Maybe it needs some kind of input buffering of sorts? I don't feel like it's an input lag kinda issue because the rest of the game is pretty decent.

As a feedback (don't think it can be changed now), noreya's wall jump doesn't feel the best because of how far the launch is from the wall, meaning wall jumping on the same wall is far slower than alternate walls. I guess you guys were going for a more Ori-like horizontal traversal but it doesn't feel good in this game given that most levels are pretty balanced in vertical and horizontal traversal. I enjoyed the dark lady fight but absolutely abhored the worm chases because of how little control I feel I have at any moment. In fact the general theme of my experience so far is that the majority of my deaths are due to getting punished because I jumped too early or too late, which means movement is not fluid and dynamic, but heavily deliberate, kinda like a souls game. Heck, attacking locks you in place on the ground too, so that further solidifies the feeling. Which is weird because the rest of the game plays like a fluid platformer that gives me full control of the character, like Ori or Hollow Knight.

Not that this needs to be changed as it's your vision, but unfortunately it's not the kind of design that I would enjoy. Hopefully this changes once I get used to the controls, though I can't say I'm having fun at this moment.

Mmmmh, I think I kinda understand the difference.

HK and Blasphemous are much more slower games/character.

WJ in Blasphemous is radically different from HK and completely punitive, you can "pre-jump".

In HK you have those "fake graphic walls" which are larger from the hitbox, this create a feeling of touching the wall before you touch the hitbox, also the character is much more slower.

All 3 games have a very little bit of inertia and I think this is the point of Noreya in which inertia is 0. At first we had a little bit, but because of how fast the character is, setting inertia ato 0 provided a better feeling when running accross the world.

So I think what happens is you push "right" before touching the wall, and you never touch it so your WJ fails because everything you see is 100% pixel-perfect and acurate.

We do use input buffering so I don't think this is the issue.

However, the fact that you manage to "fail WJ" by jumping to late is surprising to me, only if you change the direction and never touch the wall.
The game does use the "coyote-time" which is very handy for many many things, so if you touch the wall and go-away from it, you still have that timeframe to complete the WJ.

However if you never touch the wall, you can't WJ.

Probably changing the inertia would help, but at which cost?

Gonna try that on my side "just to see", but I don't think it's a good idea regarding the speedrunners who are used to "100% air control".

Please try to enforce touching the wall, I understand it can be disturbing, but it will leads you to 100% WJ success.


Oh, something else that could bring you some joy and fun, try to "pogo-boost", you jump and "almost at the same time" down-attack, so both vertical intertia will be cumulated.

This is why there are so many pots before cliffs of big jumps.

I'm not sure if coyote time factors into this, unless my math is wrong? I do get that you guys have some ridiculously generous coyote time (which feels great on horizontal traversal), I'm not aware this can be implemented for wall jumps as well. I'll keep that in mind when I get to that ability in my own project. The issue about inertia is interesting; I don't agree this needs to be changed, and truth be told after another 2 hours of play I've kind of gotten used to the wall jumps. Like you said, it'll need some re-training of my muscle memory, but so far so good. Pogo boost is a good idea, I'll give it a try on my next round.

Originally posted by frostee:

I'm not sure if coyote time factors into this, unless my math is wrong? I do get that you guys have some ridiculously generous coyote time (which feels great on horizontal traversal), I'm not aware this can be implemented for wall jumps as well. I'll keep that in mind when I get to that ability in my own project. The issue about inertia is interesting; I don't agree this needs to be changed, and truth be told after another 2 hours of play I've kind of gotten used to the wall jumps. Like you said, it'll need some re-training of my muscle memory, but so far so good. Pogo boost is a good idea, I'll give it a try on my next round.

Glad to read that :) Tho it's an interesting that require some attention here about that inertia thing.

Coyote time can be implemented "as you want". In Noreya when you touch a wall or ground, you can jump, and if you can jump the coyote time is activated at the moment you "cannot jump anymore". That is how you should implement it.

Because Noreya has been designed around a low-level system, there is a lot of emergence in the gameplay, like the pogo-boost or the "dash-jump-dash", or the "wallslide-dash-jump" (those last 2 points are possible because of the coyote time).