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Tag Archives: thieves

Musings on the Original Thief Class

26 Monday May 2025

Posted by Doug in Musings

≈ 2 Comments

Tags

3lbb, od&d, original d&d, thieves

Link to discussion

The story of the Thief class is well-known by now, with the idea being given to Gary Gygax by a D&D fan named Gary Switzer by phone, then appearing in the Great Plains Newsletter around May of 1974 (although the original idea came from Daniel Wagner).

This original version of the Thief class, with d6 hit dice and meant for use with the 3LBB, is only available as poor quality scans of typewritten pages. Allan Grohe (Grodog) did an amazing job of transcribing the copies, but his transcription is no longer available online.

Zenopus Archives did an overview of this class back in 2016, and made a one-page reference sheet of the original Thief available (re-worded and without the example of the Thief in action).

However, since I had downloaded a copy of the original transcription before it was taken down, I wanted to at least go through that document and comment on the various sections with relevant quotes, adding my own views.

Thieves are always _neutral_. Their prime requisite is _dexterity_. Men, Dwarves, Elves, or Hobbits may become thieves.

In subsequent editions, Thieves can be evil or chaotic as well. Restricting them to neutral paints the thief as more of an opportunist. There are no skill bonuses for the demi-human thief in this version, but also no stated level limits.

Thieves are generally not meant to fight, although they are able to employ magic swords and daggers (but none of the other magical weaponry), and the only armor they can wear is leathern [sic].

This is interesting, letting Thieves use magic swords, which can be very powerful in OD&D and were normally the sole province of the Fighting Man. There is no mention of shields being prohibited.

original thief advancement table

Looking at the advancement table, we see the XP was originally the lowest of the original classes (1200xp to 2nd level and a lot lower at higher levels), and closely matches that of Greyhawk and B/X up to 8th level or so. So advancement is very fast, assuming the Thief survives (see below on disarming small traps). The use of percentage skill checks is new, and of course hit dice are d6-based.

Open locks (by picking or even foiling magical closures)… however he cannot open the lock… so it must be forced open — a very time-consuming process.

Remember that if you have to force a lock, wandering monster checks occur every turn in OD&D. Also we see the language that lets thieves pick magically closed locks. Does this include countering the wizard lock spell? This is quite powerful if so, and paints more of a picture of the thief abilities as preternatural.

Removal of small trap devices (such as poisoned needles)… Assume that a fifth level thief (Cutpurse) is a member of an expedition… the thief goes into the area and examines several chests in the room.  He notes that two have traps – which he has a 35% chance of successfully removing. He succeeds on the first, and a vial of poisonous gas is removed… Failure to remove a trap, incidentally, activates it with regard to the thief and any others within its range.

So detecting small traps is presumably automatic (the same as in Greyhawk and Holmes, but not in Moldvay), and one only has to roll to attempt to disarm the trap. The note about failure is interesting, and would make higher level thieves rare, given the 10% chance of success at 1st level.

Listen for noise behind a closed door

Note this is 1-2 in 6 at 1st and 2nd level, giving human Thieves the same chance to hear noise as Elves, Dwarves and Halflings at low levels.

Move with stealth… moving with absolute silence.

Steal items by stealth and/or sleight-of-hand… removing the object, be it from the person of the owner or from his immediate vicinity… the same likelihood as he has of moving with absolute silence.

So moving silently and stealing are lumped together, and note the detailed wording that was dropped in subsequent editions and has confused players of those editions for decades: “the same likelihood as he has of moving with absolute silence” (emphasis added). The thief abilities are extraordinary. This explains the low chance of success, and allows the referee to allow a second, non-extraordinary roll as a non-thief would get to succeed in some lesser fashion.

Stealing items is not limited to picking pockets, or even from the target himself, but within the target’s immediate vicinity. This is a much more compelling view of the Thief class than the one presented in future incarnations.

Strike silently from behind… If the thief strikes silently from behind he will do two dice of damage for every four levels he as attained, minimum damage of two dice, and hit probabilities from behind should be increased by 20% (+4 on numbers shown to hit).

Note there is no weapon restriction with this ability – it’s not a backstab, but an attack from behind. Also note the word “silently”, which implies a “move with stealth” roll, but not a hide in shadows roll.

Hide in shadows… chance to remain undetected when hiding or moving through shadows… hide without being seen provided he wasn’t observed prior to hiding, and there were shadows, of course.

Again with the emphasis on a preternatural skill, the “chance to remain undetected”. This explicitly allows moving through shadows as well, the thief does not have to stay in one place (again, unlike in Moldvay).

Climb almost sheer surfaces rapidly, up or down.

No chance of success or failure is noted here, so we have to assume the climbing skill is automatic. In the Greyhawk supplement, Thieves had a 13% of failure while climbing at 1st level, reduced by 1% per level. In Moldvay, this is “Climb Steep Surfaces”, which has a totally different connotation.

Third level thieves (Robber and above) are able to read languages, so treasure maps can be understood by them without recourse to a spell.

Ninth level thieves (Thief and above) are able to understand magical writings, so if they discover a scroll they are able to employ any spells thereon, excluding clerical spells.

Again, no chance of success is mentioned, so we have to assume these are automatic. Greyhawk added some limitations for these skills.

Overall, I’d say this is a fairly playable class for your 3LBB games. This version of the Thief is similar to Moldvay’s version, at least on the surface (XP requirements, percentage skills). However, the wording used to describe the skills makes it a very different class when played. I much prefer this original version – I like the emphasis on the Thief as having preternatural skills to open magical locks, move with absolute silence, move undetected in shadows, or climb (almost) sheer surfaces – things non-thieves could not even attempt. It would be easy to pull in little house rules from Greyhawk like the chance of failure for climbing, if you thought the class was too powerful. But I don’t see it, especially given the note about how a failure to disarm a trap sets it off. Congratulate any player that gets a Thief to higher levels using this rule.

Staying Alive in Old-School Adventures Redux: Thieves

23 Friday May 2025

Posted by Doug in DM Resources, Player Resources

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Tags

old school gaming, surviving, surviving-redux, thieves, tips

Link to discussion

This is a continuing series of ‘Staying Alive’ posts. The the first three were about Magic-Users, Fighters, and Clerics. They are mostly geared towards OD&D, B/X and clones, and have tips for both players and referees.

Melee

Thieves typically fight as Clerics, that is to say, slightly worse than fighters, but they are limited to leather armor and cannot use a shield. So they are not suited for front-line combat. They do, however, have access to magic swords and bows, so with their rear attack or backstab ability, thieves are best suited for surprise or missile attacks.

As a referee, consider allowing the rear or backstab attack any time a thief can reasonably surprise someone from behind – and not necessarily only when a thief can move silently and hide in shadows as per their skills. The latter requirements make the backstab nearly impossible at lower levels. In my games, If a player can describe a plausible way their thief can sneak into position without being heard or noticed, I allow the backstab after a round or two. And during melee this is sometimes easier to do, given that the general noise and chaos of battle might mask any external sounds or movement.

Missile fire once melee has started can be problematic, with the risk of hitting an ally (if you use such rules), but see below about missile use in other situations.

Avoiding Melee

Try to use clever means of avoiding combat, such as distractions, e.g. thrown food, treasure or rocks used to create noise as a misdirection. Also don’t forget that a thief with a high charisma can be useful in negotiating a party’s way out of a combat, or even making an ally. But if you have to, run away. A thief in leather armor will be faster than any metal-armored party members, so remember that old adage about just needing to be faster than the slowest person in your party.

Thieves of even low levels can climb sheer surfaces well (in the original incarnation of the class, at least), so if the geography or architecture allows it, you should consider climbing above a melee to a perch where a bow or crossbow can be used to pick off opponents who haven’t yet joined combat, or who attempt to flee combat.

Oil

Consider oil as a missile weapon, or as a deterrent to pursuit. In OD&D oil is mentioned only in the latter context; thrown oil that was set alight did not do damage until the Holmes Basic D&D rules came along. Either way, if the thief is scouting ahead for a party, the oil may come in handy if the thief has to flee an encounter.

Scouting

As far as scouting, think tactically. Most thieves won’t be able to see in the dark without magical assistance, and holding a torch or lantern and trying to sneak about unnoticed in a dark dungeon are at odds with one another. So scouting is best done in environments where there are dimly lit or shadowed areas to hide in, or objects to obscure direct view of the thief as they move around.

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