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Comments on Finding a non-trivial, rigorous definition of a "measure zero" subset of a set of function spaces which satisfies the following?

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Finding a non-trivial, rigorous definition of a "measure zero" subset of a set of function spaces which satisfies the following?

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Suppose $n\in\mathbb{N}$ and $f:A\subseteq\mathbb{R}^{n}\to\mathbb{R}$ is a function, where $A$ and $f$ are Borel.

Question: Assuming $\mathrm{S}(n):=\left\{\mathfrak{F}_1:\mathfrak{F}_1\in\mathbb{R}^{\mathrm{K}},{\mathrm{K}}\subseteq\mathbb{R}^{n} \text{ and $\mathfrak{F}$ are Borel}\right\}$ is the set of all $f$, what is an example of a non-trivial, rigorous definition of a "measure zero" subset of $\mathrm{S}(n)$ which can be used to prove the following? For each $n\in\mathbb{N}$:

If $F\subset\mathrm{S}(n)$ is the set of all $\dot{\mathbf{f}}\in\mathrm{S}(n)$, where $\mathcal{D}:=\mathrm{dom}(\dot{\mathbf{f}})$ and $m_{\dot{\mathbf{f}}}(\mathcal{D};n)$ (Definition 2.1) is defined and finite, then $F$ is a "measure zero" subset of $\mathrm{S}(n)$.

This means the set of all $f$ with a finite mean (Definition 2.1) is a "measure zero" subset of the set of all $f$. In other terms, "almost no" $f$ has a finite mean.

Note: See the attempt in Section $\S$3.


$\S$2. Definitions

Definition $\S$2.1 (Extended Mean of $f$ w.r.t. The Hausdorff Measure in the Hausdorff dimension of its domain)

Suppose:

  • $\dim_{\text{H}}(\cdot)$ is the Hausdorff dimension
  • $\mathcal{H}^{\dim_{\text{H}}(\cdot)}(\cdot)$ is the Hausdorff measure in its dimension on the Borel $\sigma$-algebra.
  • the integral of $f$ is defined w.r.t. the Hausdorff measure in the Hausdorff dimension of its domain
  • $(A_r)_{r\in\mathbb{N}}$ is a sequence of bounded sets
  • $A$ is a Borel subset of $\mathbb{R}^n$
  • $\mathbf{B}(A)$ is the set of all sequences of bounded sets with set-theoretic limit $A$

The mean of $f:A\subseteq\mathbb{R}^{n}\to\mathbb{R}$ (i.e., $f$ is Borel), w.r.t. the Hausdorff measure in the Hausdorff dimension of its domain, is $m_{f}(A;n)$ when it exists:

$$\small{\begin{align}& \forall((A_r)_{r\in\mathbb{N}}\!\in\!\mathbf{B}(A))\exists\!\:!(m_{f}(A;n)\in\mathbb{R})\forall(\epsilon>0)\exists(N\in\mathbb{N})\forall(r\in\mathbb{N})\\ &\left(r\ge N\Rightarrow\left|\frac{1}{{\mathcal{H}}^{\text{dim}_{\text{H}}(A_r)}(A_r)}\int_{A_r}f\, d{\mathcal{H}}^{\text{dim}_{\text{H}}(A_r)}-m_{f}(A;n)\right|<\epsilon\right) \end{align}}$$

The extended mean of $f$ extends the mean, w.r.t. the Hausodorff measure in the Hausdorff dimension of its domain $$\frac{1}{{\mathcal{H}}^{\dim_{\text{H}}(A)}(A)}\int_{A} f {} d{\mathcal{H}}^{\dim_{\text{H}}(A)}$$ for certain cases of unbounded $A$. In simpler terms, the extended mean of $f$ exists, when the mean on all sequences of bounded functions $(A_r)_{r\in\mathbb{N}}$ with set-theoretic limit $A$ are unique and finite.


$\S$3. Attempt:

We want a "full measure" or "measure zero" set $F\subset \mathrm{S}(n)$ to be similar to a prevalent or shy subset of $\mathrm{S}(n)$; however, $\mathrm{S}(n)$ is not a vector space. Despite this, we can use the cardinality of a set $|\cdot|$ such that:

  1. If $F\subset \mathrm{S}(n)$ is a set and $|\mathrm{S}(n)\setminus F|<|\mathrm{S}(n)|$, then $F$ is a "full measure" subset of $\mathrm{S}(n)$
  2. If $F\subset \mathrm{S}(n)$ is a set and $|F|<|\mathrm{S}(n)|$, then $F$ is a "measure zero" subset of $\mathrm{S}(n)$

Still, when Borel $A\subseteq\mathbb{R}$ is a fixed set (i.e., $A=\mathbb{R}$) and $\mathrm{S}(n)\mapsto \mathbb{R}^{A}$, the quote is true when $F$ is shy.

If $F\subset\mathbb{R}^{A}$ is the set of all $f\in\mathbb{R}^{A}$, where $m_{f}(A;n)$ (Definition 2.1) is finite, then $F$ is a shy subset of $\mathbb{R}^{A}$.

On the other hand, if we used the cardinality of a set, then 1. and 2. are false in order for the quote to be true and $F$ is neither a "measure zero" nor "full measure" subset of $\mathbb{R}^{A}$.

Sub-question: Can we define a "full measure" or "measure zero" subset of $\mathrm{S}(n)$ similar to a prevalent or shy set? (The measures should be the same as the ones answering the sub-question here and here.)

History

2 comment threads

Regarding Your Answer (2 comments)
Difference between the three questions here (12 comments)
Difference between the three questions here
clemens‭ wrote 6 days ago

You linked, at the bottom of your post, to two other questions. What, more succinctly, is the difference between those two questions and your current question? They seem almost exactly the same.

bharathk98‭ wrote 6 days ago · edited 6 days ago

I want to find a measure for all the questions that give "intuitive results", then prove them using those definitions.

The statements in each question are different, so each one has a different proof: however, we must define the measure.

clemens‭ wrote 5 days ago

OK, that makes sense.

Since the main question seems (to me) to be about defining the measure, I would suggest merging the three questions into one and putting the three statements in this question and in pts. 1 and 2 at the end.

bharathk98‭ wrote 5 days ago

I don't want to make any major changes. If you can answer one of questions and add why it answers the others, I would be greatful.

clemens‭ wrote 5 days ago

Well, to answer any of these questions, I would want to know what standards of elegance this "measure" is supposed to meet, so to speak.

You write that you want the mean of a random function $f$ to be undefined a.a. Alright – and it's easy enough to do this (just take the Cauchy distribution (which has neither mean nor standard deviation) and take a countable sample therefrom; the measure can be defined by the product topology; uncountable samples can IIRC be treated similarly to countable samples) – but why? What is the idea driving this criterion?

bharathk98‭ wrote 5 days ago · edited 4 days ago

My original intention is to take the mean of an explicit $\mathcal{G}$, using a sequence of bounded functions (with different domains) converging to $\mathcal{G}$ (Defintion 2.1). However, the mean is non-unique depending on the chosen sequence of bounded functions.

If we can choose a specific sequence of bounded functions, we get a new unique, "satisfying", and finite mean. I am not sure how to choose this; however, I explained everything in detail here. (I need a rigorous defintion of "full measure" and "measure zero" from pg. 6-8 & 12-13.)

Pretend "families" are sequences, $n=1$, and "the measure" is a measure of entropic density rather than the measure you intended to define.

clemens‭ wrote 5 days ago · edited 5 days ago

Sorry, I cannot read this link (https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:VA6C2:36a3a008-d76b-42a0-9e70-01efc0f26f01). Do you have the paper in a different format?

Anyway what relevance do "families" have to this question? I do not see them mentioned.

bharathk98‭ wrote 4 days ago · edited 4 days ago

Does this link work? (You only need to download the document from the latex page.)

Families are generalizations of sequences. I chose them because they are important for “the actual rate of expansion” (Definition 23 page 11).

clemens‭ wrote 4 days ago

Yes, that link works; thanks.

Given the application area of your work I would suggest you look into the techniques used in theoretical physics e.g. with Feynman path integrals and quantum chromodynamics. This kind of regularization of undefined sums/integrals to have finite and defined values is something I've been mildly interested in for some time but frankly not nearly erudite enough to tackle myself.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help; but I hope what input I have been able to give has been helpful in your learning.

bharathk98‭ wrote 4 days ago · edited 4 days ago

I understand.

What would you consider the best definition of "measure zero" and "full measure" subsets of $S(n)$ that gives what I want in pg. 6-8 & 12-13 of this paper? (You can answer in this post.)

clemens‭ wrote 4 days ago

Looking over it cursorily, it seems you want to define an "extended mean" of $f$ based on the limit of almost all sequences of bounded functions with pointwise limit $f$; is that correct?

bharathk98‭ wrote 4 days ago

Yes, I think that's correct.