HOW MUCH IS TOO LITTLE? Calculating Treasure in Dungeons

A common problem quickly encountered when designing your own dungeon or stocking a map drawn by another is the optimal amount of treasure to add. A cousin to that problem could be the "treasure" restocking, again, how much do you add? More distantly related might be if a particular module you picked up is going to contain enough treasure to level a party or at least make the risk worth it?

But it is difficult to understand at a glance because of the alphabet treasure tables (one of my loathes because of complexity), variation due to lairs, if the treasure is trapped or unguarded in which case you employ a different treasure formula (one of my favorites because of simplicity), and even variations in gem quality or type. It is also sometimes difficult to understand how rolling magic items changes treasure distribution.

If you have one or two years of DMing experience under your belt, you have a feel treasure amounts, but you might be like me and think, "Shouldn't someone have already calculated all of this out?"

Well the OSR blogosphere provides! An author by the name of Lungfungus who blogs at Melancholies and Mirth wrote a document brought to my attention on bluskey by blark about just this topic.

While the document contains a lot of good advice about dungeon design, I was particularly enamored with the section on dungeon stocking which synthesizes a lot of different methods of stocking into one table AND answers the question of "how much is enough" when it comes to treasure.

Summary of Actual Dungeon Mastering: How to Design Dungeons

First, on average, 1-in-5 dungeon rooms contain treasure

Lungfungus begins by examining a variety of random stocking methods spanning known editions of D&D from TSR and several popular retroclones. When it comes to treasure-containing rooms, from a TSR edition perspective, they occur roughly every ~4-in-20 rooms (BX methods 10-in-36 and AD&D roughly 4-in-20). A lot of retro-clones, being derived from these two editions, conform to the same distribution.

Second, the average value of a TSR treasure room on Level 1 is 586.5gp

Using the various treasure tables from Appendix A of the AD&D DMG, Lungfungus calculates the average amount of treasure a treasure room might contain and arrives at an average value of 586.5 gold pieces. Fantastic! Let's just round it off to ~600gp for ease.

But each treasure room could instead have a 1-in-6 change of being a magic item instead of coin/gem/goods-based treasure. We can also convert 1-in-6 to ~3-in-20 to keep all our rolls on a d20.

Third, 2000xp is the average need to advance a PC from level 1 to 2

Lungfungus uses a very familiar method of calculating the average total XP needed to level up by taking the average XP needed by a single PC to advance from level 1 to level 2 which is 2000xp. So, a party of 6 PCs needs on average 12,000xp in total to advance from level 1 to level 2.

Now there are a couple of additional calculations I am leaving out such a reducing treasure given that some XP is awarded for monsters and adding 50% more treasure than the required amount given that PCs will often overlook hidden treasure or not explore every single room in a given dungeon.

In that regard, it might be better to use "magic-user" instead of "fighter" when calculating the XP need to advance above given that a MU requires 2500xp vs a fighter's 2000xp.

Fourth, the total size of the dungeon can be determined from the number of treasure rooms required for a given party size to advance from level 1 to level 2

Therefore, since the average value of a treasure room is 586.5gp and the total amount of XP needed is 12,000, then a level 1 dungeon will need at least 20.4 treasure rooms. And so, since 1-in-5 rooms are treasure rooms in the average dungeon, we do a little algebra and solve for X to get the total size of the dungeon:

Total dungeon rooms: (1/5) = (20/X) 

Total dungeon rooms: 1X = 100

Total dungeon rooms: X = 100

Finally, the Lungfungus synthesized stocking method

Roll 1d20 per room and consult the table below:

1-12        Empty Rooms 13            Room with a Dynamic Element

14            Room that is Trapped

15            Room containing an Obstacle 16-20     Monster Treasure Containing Rooms: For any given room, there is 4-in-20 chance it contains treasure and a 3-in-20 chance that treasure is a magic item (6-in-20 if it is trapped); treasure value is ~600gp x dungeon level

The final thing that might be important to realize is that PC XP requirements increase linearly, so all you need to do is multiply the above amounts by the dungeon level to have everything scale properly. So the treasure room amount for Level 7 of the dungeon is ~600gp x 7 = 4,200gp. This seems like a lot however to get a fighter from level 7 to level 8 it takes 64,000 additional xp.

TREASURE STOCKING: Is There A Better Way?

 

A classic example of interesting treasure

Quick note: I'm not even sure I am happy with the below solution, but at least I get my thoughts out there.

SO WHAT IS TREASURE GOOD FOR IN D&D? The explicit metapurpose is to gain XP to level up. But treasure also serves purposes of worldbuilding, plot movement, antagonism (e.g. cursed weapons), and provides broad tools to help the PCs plunge deeper into the dungeon. Helpful when characters are randomly determined.

I think that "good" treasure placement in a dungeon is achieved when all tthe above points are satisfied when looking at the whole level. By ensuring that the treasure placed in the dungeon serves multiple play and character functions, I think we maintain momentum within the classic playstyle on a per session basis.

Why is this "momentum" important? Because unlike the 1970's of D&D's development, we now live in a world with more time constraints and increased entertainment competition. D&D was developed in an environment where Gygax and Arneson were playing weekly games lasting between 8-12 hours as reported in Game Wizards, Playing At The World, and The Secrets of Blackmoor. At best I am able to pull a weekly 2-4 hour session, maybe an additioal twice monthly game.

Also, in the grand scheme of things I as a DM want to bring aspects of higher level play "down" into the lower levels. Interacting the the fantastical should not have to wait until 5th or 6th level. First level play should also astound in the same manner even if you only have 3 hp. And in truth, most players don't have that sort of real-life time.

Intersting treasure serves both purposes it allows for steady character progression while also providing resources for the party to (hopefuly) take educated risk in the setting be it exploration or "social".

So what specifically is a "good" treasure spread? And I am trying to arrive at something similar to the overloaded encounter die or dungeon checklist of treasure. This is to say both a way of ascertaining if a dungeon level has good treasure and a easy procedure by which to generate it.

LEVEL 1 TREASURE

While I don't think we need to go level by level to illistrate the point, here is what I think is good treasure in a level 1 dungeon:

• Provide enough GP for a party of 4 fighters to advance to level 2 if all treasure is found
• 50% of the treasure should serve other purposes (notable art, notorious signet ring)
• At least 2 spells the MU does not currently have in their spellbook
• 3 potions that overcome dungeon obstacles
• Magic damage that is 1-shot or disposable (silver arrows or +1 sling pellets)

So how can I place this treasure easily? Right now the method of dungeon generation is to place the important treasure, monsters, and/or factions first then randomly stock using this classic table:

Roll 1d6 for contents & treasure for each room

1,2 | Monster    (3:6 treasure)

3    | Trap          (2:6 treasure)

4,5 | Empty       (1:6 treasure "hidden")

6    | Special      (no treasure)

If the room contains a monster then you use the treasure type found in its entry, otherwise there is a second treasure table that is for non-monster guarded loot:

For each non-monster guarded treasure

• 1d6 x 100 SP
• 1d6 x 10 GP (50%)
• 1d6 gems (5%)
• 1d6  pieces of jewlery (2%)
• Magic item (2%)

This is okay, but I feel it runs the risk of making a dungeon anemic in terms of both treasure and items which can help overcome dungeon obsticles. And I can't stand the monster treasure tables. I almost just think it makes more sense to write some average treasure haul in each entry like HP.

MY POSSIBLE SOLUTION

After placing important noteworthy treasure, monsters, and obsticles, I propose the following:

First: I want to ensure that all the treasure on X level can advance the characters to the next level if they find most of it. To calculate this, I just use the XP progression for a fighter. For four fighters moving from level 1 to level 2 that is 8000 GP in total treasure.

Second: by BX standards, treasure comes as coin, gems, jewelry, scrolls, potions, & a wide variety of magic items (which is inversly related to how often randomly rolling will bring them into play). Since I want to test all of this out, I am just going with the bog-standard BX stuff and see if I can put a few intresting twists on them. Here is also a fantastic way to spice treasures up using spark tables!

Third: I want to give each of those catagories a context by pariring them with room contents. So, only certain treasure will be found in the context of certain rooms instead of it being anything.

For instance, I think a trap in a lst level dungeon is going to be guarding jewlery or magic because no one would trap something they are going to access frquently like loose coin-- you use guards instead. Also traps allow the thing to be visable because it could serve a symbolic purpose, but protected. So, the jewlery could be a crown or septor with some significance in the region. If magic, maybe this is a one-use javlin of lightinging forged to kill a demon but only in a "In Case of Emergency, Break Glass" way. Or maybe it is a small stash of healing potions that only clerics can touch.

Fourth: I want the specific treasure to be as easy to generate as the the Room Contents x Treasure table above. I really hate  rolling a monster then 6 different percentages of its treasure type then rolling on a sub table. If its a lair, fine, but rarely is that the case. And really if it is a lair, its contents should be more intentionally placed. And I want the treasure table to change between level 1-4 "hero" & 5-8 "super hero".

Here is my combination table:

LEVEL 1-4 ROOM STOCKING: Roll 1d6 for contents, treasure, & treasure type for each room

1,2 | Monster    (3:6 treasure)                   Coin (1-3) || Gem/Jewelry (4-6) 

3    | Trap          (2:6 treasure)                   Gem/Jewelry (1-4) || Magic Item (5-6)

4,5 | Empty       (1:6 treasure "hidden")   Gem/Jewelry (1-2) || Scroll (3-4) || Potion (5-6)

6    | Special      (no treasure)                    The room itself is a treasure in some fashion (e.g. alter)

Once again I find myself writing a lot of words for what is essentially a small table. I dunno if this had solved my "problem" but at least I feel like I've aired my thoughts.

KNOCK! Vol. 1: A compendium opening the door on the best of old-school thought

 

KNOCK! Vol.1 from The Merry Mushmen

Is KNOCK! the best RPG thing of 2021? Could very well be. Do you need it? Yes! Its worth 100% of the money. This is a collection of blog posts, writings, and "bric-a-brac" from the old-school scene helpfully bound into an analog print format. Here is Questing Beast's video on the book. And here is Chris McDowell's review.

I agree with both Ben and Chris that, like the hip-hop beats used to promote the Kickstarter, KNOCK! conveys the scrappy-to-slightly-feral, easy, free-flowing, imaginative nature of running an old school DIY game. This is important because frequently the scene gets dragged for its various drama rather than the exciting content and sound advice it produces; this book wonderfully showcases both strengths.

The additional beauty of this collection is that, like the 1e AD&D DMG, it meanders across so many topics: monsters, treasure, traps, player classes, theory behind play, and interrogative thought on older modules. Randomly roll a d200 and you are going to land on an interesting, informative article.

In fact, it is so complete in covering all the topics you need to run a fantasy adventure game, that if KNOCK! had included Knave in a two page spread, this collection would have been a complete RPG!

However, what I can say with most certainty is that you can build, stock, and run a really good dungeon designed with the most current old-school thought on the matter using KNOCK!

The basic advice in Moldvey Basic D&D is to draw a map, place special monsters and treasure first (so the items the dungeon is known for or weapon its rumored to have guarded by the monster rumored to have killed the last chump), then stock using the table below:

Its confusing, but the chance a room has treasure is:
50% if contining a monster, 33% if a trap, & 16% if empty

This gets you going, but how do you make all the above "good"? What is a "good dungeon" anyways? Well, answers to these questions are exactly the sorts of articles that comprise KNOCK! Let me demonstrate:

Dungeon Design

030: Dungeon Check List- 8 things that make dungeons more interesting; allows self-grading
054: OSR-style Challenges- The nature of what you are trying to achieve in old-school design
082: The Overly Thematic Dungeon- How to balance the fantastical with the realistic
112: Livin' Up Those Corridors- Hallways are an interesting places to explore too

Monster Design

016: Monster Design- Using the Lich as a template, how to switch up classic monsters
039: Wandering Monsters- Those 1d6 skeletons can be used to tell the dungeon's story or spark interest
086: Dungeon Geniuses- You always need "special" NPCs to fight, talk to, or bribe or all 3!
140: Complete the Dungeon- Great faction table with goals and secrets
144: Just Use Bears- Want a special monster but agonize over the stats? Just use bear stats.

Neat Traps & Special Not-Traps

080: 8 Statue Encounters- Part of the Dungeon Check List is stuff to interact with-- here's eight.
113: 34 Good Traps- "Save or die" can frustrate players, here's how to keep traps exciting but fair

Good Treasure

089: Better Treasure- "Sword +1 and 500 gp" is not doing it in 2021, here's how to spice it up.
104: D20 Magic Helmets- Switch out all "Sword +1" with these instead; armor- criminally underutilized
116: 300 Useless Magic Items- Dead wizard in a (now more exciting) hallway? Check her pockets.
133: 12 Magic Blades- Better than "Sword +2" & you gotta have your dungeon geniuses packin'

And that's not even half the damn book! I've left out articles on player classes, monsters, dueling, essays about the Keep on the Borderlands, how to create impact in your game, make the stakes matter, a series of beautiful maps, the demon generator, and the 3-4 small adventures!

I hope this series gets at least 6 issues so we can create an omnibus that is all d6 tables. The production is sharp; art beautiful; advice sound; and a great way to fossilize the scene output as digital media preservation becomes unreliable.