[CSS-SCROLLBARS] Some scrollbars aren't accessible for interactions #6675
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Closed Accepted by CSSWG Resolution
css-scrollbars-1
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Testing Unnecessary
Memory aid - issue doesn't require tests
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Came across a different issue with a scrollbar - I thought I'd share!
The scrollbar on the website I thought didn't exist due to it being almost the same colour as the web page. The CSS Spec should also include WCAG 2.0 level AA requirements. |
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@tantek so @summercms has provided other examples here and looking through them they seem to be using |
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I am not convinced that should vs must here will make much of a difference in this case, as this is not really an objectively testable assertion. But I don't have an issue with the intent of the change either. Agenda+ |
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The CSS Working Group just discussed
The full IRC log of that discussion<TabAtkins> Topic: some scrollbars aren't accessible<TabAtkins> github: https://github.com//issues/6675 <TabAtkins> Rossen_: do we need Greg? <TabAtkins> florian: I'll try. <TabAtkins> florian: two parts to the issue <TabAtkins> florian: some people complain that scrollbars found on the web were weird or unusable <TabAtkins> florian: Those were ::-webkit-scrollbar, not thru our specced properties <TabAtkins> florian: The spec doesn't need to write about how to use those, since we consider them to not exist <TabAtkins> florian: the part we do need to talk about is that the spec currently says that narrow scrollbars "should remain wide enough to be usable". Greg says this should be a MUST. <TabAtkins> florian: At least, when the user begins interacting. <TabAtkins> florian: I'd skip that last part, because we're not really specifying that the narrow scrollbar has a dynamic width; browsers can do whatever. <TabAtkins> florian: But going from "should be usable" to "must be usable"... why not? Not sure it's enforceable, but a browser deciding its narrow scrollbars don't need to be usable would be odd. <flackr> q+ <TabAtkins> florian: WCAG, note, says that the minimum size to be interacted with is 40px, and wide scrollbars aren't ever anywhere near that, so what it means to be "wide enough to be interacted with" seems difficult to understand <TabAtkins> florian: for overlay scrollbars, having them dynamically change size is fine, but layout scrollbars you probably don't; I don't think we should exclude it tho. <TabAtkins> Rossen_: Just moving the SHOULD to MUST and leaving the text otherwise the same makes sense <Rossen_> ack flackr <TabAtkins> flackr: I raised this in OpenUI - even if the scrollbar isn't visually large enough, we do "fuzz" touches on buttons, and could do the same thing for the scrollbar, so as long as your finger touches near the scrollbar it considers you to be touching it <TabAtkins> flackr: I think it should be a reasonable way to have a narrow scrollbar that's still usable <TabAtkins> florian: Perhaps we can include this in a note - if you're overlay, feel free to enlarge it on hover; if not, maybe fuzz hit testing. Nothing normative, just suggestions <TabAtkins> Rossen_: Stepping back, from pure a11y, the change makes sense. <TabAtkins> Rossen_: Said many times - we shouldn't be specifying how the UI frameworks should work. <TabAtkins> Rossen_: But if we've already gone to the extend of adding normative text about "scrollbar width must be large enough", changing that to a MUST makes sense <TabAtkins> +1 <TabAtkins> Rossen_: Objections? <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Change SHOULD to MUST in the normative text about UAs ensuring the scrollbars are wide enough to interact with |
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Closed Accepted by CSSWG Resolution
Testing Unnecessary
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Addressed in 3eec18f |
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Hello,
We had an issue filed on Open UI about enforcing accessible scrollbars. While we have requested the site from the person that filed it; it does indicate a potentially lax spec text.
In the telecon today regarding this topic (if Open UI was the right venue for such a discussion) we denoted that the spec text could have more text around increased hit-targets or even possibly over-riding the min/max regions to match a "usable" behavior. Likewise I recommend that the following change be made:
change to:
As noted we can add in more insights and even potentially recommended dimensions based on studies that I'm sure companies within this group have done to inform the design guidelines for their scrollers.
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