@ofborg test installer installer-systemd-stage-1 disable-installer-tools

Fyi, a possible replacement for defaultPackages could be

• nixos/system-path: convert environment.systemPackages to an attrset #255086

It also allows users to remove packages, without breaking existing configs.

You'd be responsible for others' data loss because their backup script stopped working, as rsync disappeared.

Assuming they don't have any notification in place, and that nothing else installs rsync. But I agree, this is a concern. I still think it's really bad to install several effectively random and rarely used packages on every single NixOS instance.

We can't silently remove packages, and I don't think doing it loudly (whatever that is) is worth the annoyance for something as minor as this.

I wouldn't consider wasting however many cycles and bytes are needed for these packages millions or billions of times over "minor".

defaultPackages' purpose iirc is exactly to be able to opt out of these packages without breaking existing configurations.

The "opt out" is the problem here. I haven't seen any reason that any of these should be default, any more than Firefox, netcat, jq, or any of the thousands of available programs. And it's not exactly obvious to a beginner why this is necessary or how to do it.

Fyi, a possible replacement for defaultPackages could be

* [nixos/system-path: convert environment.systemPackages to an attrset #255086](https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/255086)

It also allows users to remove packages, without breaking existing configs.

That would be cool, but it's very far from ready, and we should still address the issue of installing packages which usually don't need to be there.

I agree that it's bad, but in my opinion the cure is worse.

At the very least, you should add a proper release note that describes what actually happens to people's configs.
(The changed line doesn't mean much to hardly anyone)

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe others agree it's good enough? Feel free to discuss with others and reach a decision.

EDIT: ping me if you need me.

As I mentioned here, the original idea behind defaultPackages was to gradually absorb things from requiredPackages one by one (checking that things do not break without them), allowing for them to be disabled by overriding defaultPackages and at the same time not breaking peoples setup (because they are still there by default).

Backwards compatibility is important but I don't want this to become another fgrep/egrep that is deprecated yet never removed.

is perl of all thing an integral part of nixos?
And if there is no dependency on rsync or strace by Nix or NixOS then they shouldn't be included by default, if someone really wants to use rsync or strace or even perl then they will include it in the nix config, that's the point of using NixOS, having a reproducible and tailored to your needs system, isn't it?

I don't think such minor breaking changes are bad because they are VERY TRIVIAL to fix(literally move 3 lines of code) unlike some other changes that make you reimplement what you already did again but in a completely different way that you have to learn.
And if the config just simply won't build because the option is gone then this:

You'd be responsible for others' data loss because their backup script stopped working, as rsync disappeared.

won't happen.

And if the config just simply won't build because the option is gone

To be clear, that's not really the main scenario to care about when it comes to defaults, they're called default for a reason. The scenario to care about is those who didn't put rsync into their configs because it was already included in the base system (and who aren't using the rsyncd module, I suppose) - or the analogous equivalent for other default packages.

The scenario to care about is those who didn't put rsync into their configs because it was already included in the base system

If we really care a lot, then this change can be locked behind a state version, because changing it means you give consent to breaking changes.

And if we don't want to bloat NixOS code with state version checks that keep legacy code, then this change can be just another major release breaking change, people that upgrade from one major NixOS version to another also give their consent to breaking changes and should read release notes.

Although having perl of all things installed by default is not something that needs to be removed ASAP or else the user experience is ruined, I still don't want to see it be installed by default in 5 years despite it not being a dependency.

Can you give this one a rebase? I think we should finally remove this option.

Can you give this one a rebase? I think we should finally remove this option.

Done! It was mentioned a few more places, so I've cleaned those out as well.

nixpkgs-review result

Generated using nixpkgs-review.

Command: nixpkgs-review pr 263295
Commit: a94b7d27761d6be5e9a6babf3215849809ef4d2d

x86_64-linux

docker # Adding manifests...
docker # Done.
docker # [  269.260884] dockerd[878]: time="2025-09-08T20:43:43.771578340Z" level=info msg="Layer sha256:a3f35910ea90c05594581fa87a35e4a4a5aab400ddf69ad7f79ed6b1e1c9a0ac cleaned up"
docker # [  269.265244] dockerd[878]: time="2025-09-08T20:43:43.776303801Z" level=info msg="Layer sha256:d07f16e20f117aa6116cacb42311c7af4095c20c1dd330bbd60ef284d88a19ac cleaned up"
docker # [  269.267946] dockerd[878]: time="2025-09-08T20:43:43.779020627Z" level=info msg="Layer sha256:7db6d8a15d22947a2aad21cbbb90d1a43c9de6610426e213a7409410df8e40a2 cleaned up"
docker # [  269.270636] dockerd[878]: time="2025-09-08T20:43:43.781649173Z" level=info msg="Layer sha256:48affc6d0256b97f056ee728920c579704516408efd39b10a077f40e28091856 cleaned up"
docker # [  269.272092] dockerd[878]: time="2025-09-08T20:43:43.782788424Z" level=info msg="Layer sha256:8f372e6b826972535906d237cc7fc18c035669abe7150ffc7d0e090d2aed1c06 cleaned up"
docker # write /nix/store/qdknxw57cwy1jkrhq7fzmiis73j42jv6-gcc-14.3.0/libexec/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/14.3.0/lto1: no space left on device
docker: output: 
!!! Test "buildNixShellImage: home directory is writable by default" failed with error: "command `/nix/store/2czashy790lp6rk63d6chwdkjr6rdc3k-stream-nix-shell-writable-home | docker load` failed (exit code 1)"
!!! Traceback (most recent call last):
!!!   File "<string>", line 46, in <module>
!!!     docker.succeed(
!!! 
!!! RequestedAssertionFailed: command `/nix/store/2czashy790lp6rk63d6chwdkjr6rdc3k-stream-nix-shell-writable-home | docker load` failed (exit code 1)
cleanup
kill machine (pid 11)
qemu-system-x86_64: terminating on signal 15 from pid 8 (/nix/store/iyff8129iampdw13nlfqalzhxy8y1hi9-python3-3.13.6/bin/python3.13)
kill vlan (pid 9)
(finished: cleanup, in 0.00 seconds)

docker # write /nix/store/qdknxw57cwy1jkrhq7fzmiis73j42jv6-gcc-14.3.0/libexec/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/14.3.0/lto1: no space left on device

Not sure why this is - if anything, I would expect the Docker image to contain even less after this change.