Steve Thomas:
This is Circulating Ideas. I’m Steve Thomas. My guests today are the three 2021 candidates for the president of the American Library Association: Stacey Aldrich, Ed Garcia, and Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada. Voting begins on March the eighth. Circulating Ideas is brought to you with support from Syndetics Unbound, from ProQuest and LibraryThing. and from listeners just like you. Find out how you can help support the show by going to circulatingideas.com/support.
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Steve Thomas:
All right, Stacey. Welcome to Circulating Ideas. Thank you for coming on.
Stacey Aldrich:
Oh, thanks, Steve. I’m honored to be with you today. Thank you.
Steve Thomas:
Before we get into more ALA presidential kind of stuff, what got you interested in the library profession in the first place? What made you want to be a librarian?
Stacey Aldrich:
I was one of the people who fell into it. So I was a Russian language major in college. And, my first semester, or my second semester, in Russian class, the TA knew the Slavic cataloger at the University of Pittsburgh Hillman Library. And she said, this would help you with your language. Would you be interested in this job? Because I know she’s looking for somebody. And so I became the assistant to the Slavic cataloger, and as I was finishing my degree, three or four years later, I wasn’t sure what I was going to do with Russian language. And I was talking with my boss and she said, “Well, what do you think about libraries?” And I was like, “Well, I think that I really like it, actually. I like the work of libraries and I like the idea of being able to make sure that people have access to information and opportunities. So sure!” So I apply for library school and I rolled right in, right after my undergrad into library school with the goal of being a Slavic cataloger or at the Library of Congress at the time. But I didn’t end up going there. I ended up doing a lot, lots of different other jobs.
Steve Thomas:
Well, how did you end up where you are now in Hawaii?
Stacey Aldrich:
Oh gosh. Well, I’ve been the state librarian in a couple of states. So I was the state librarian of California and the state librarian in Pennsylvania, and, I’ve known a lot of the state librarians for awhile. And the position in Pennsylvania was a political position because you’re a deputy secretary of education. And when I got the job in Pennsylvania, they said the governor always wins two terms. So, it would be at most, you wouldn’t have to worry for eight years. Of course, the governor that I came in under lost, first loss in 50 years, the governor lost. And so I wanted to have a backup plan because I didn’t know what was going to happen, and I was already on my fourth Secretary of Education. And so I knew the state librarian of Hawaii and I talked with him, he was retiring and I thought, well, I’ve been vacationing in Hawaii for a long time. I really like it. And the thing I like most about Hawaii is you’re not just a state librarian, but you’re a director of a 51 branch library system. So we’re the only statewide library system in the country with exception to Washington DC. It would be similar. So I applied, and I got Hawaii and my husband and I came out to visit and talk with people before we accepted the job and we got on the plane to head back to Pennsylvania, there was like a blizzard driving home and we thought, you know what, Pennsylvania’s not even trying. So we think we’re going to drive away. So, good news is when I talked to my boss in Pennsylvania, I would have had a job, but I, you know, we just decided to take an adventure and I love it. I just, it’s a beautiful place to live. It’s a wonderful culture to be in, and we have really great people in our libraries. So, that’s how I landed in Hawaii.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. I’ve never been there, but it’s on my wife’s and I’s list to vacation sometime.
Stacey Aldrich:
Come visit, yeah, for sure.
Steve Thomas:
So a lot of times, unfortunately, a lot of articles that come out in the media is all about, “Oh, libraries are so 20th century, they’re book warehouses, blah, blah, blah, and they’re irrelevant because of Google.” How would you answer those people? And why do you think libraries are still important in the 21st century? I think we all agree with you!
Stacey Aldrich:
Why do I think they are?
Steve Thomas:
Yes.
Stacey Aldrich:
You know, I always find that to be a really interesting idea that because there’s a new tool that offers access to all kinds of information that all of a sudden a library is not important anymore. And when I think about libraries, I think libraries have always been about human connections. And when you look at books, which are the things that most people still associate with libraries, a book is just a technology to communicate ideas. And so when you look at the internet, the internet is just another form of communication, but it’s now communication that you can carry with you anywhere and you can have access to. I think the human connection part is still the very important core of what libraries are about and ensuring that everybody has access, at least in the United States, we believe in everybody having access to the same resources. So it’s about democracy, and it’s about ensuring that no matter what tool you need to access information, that you always have an opportunity in that libraries are open to everybody, no matter who you are and what your status is in life. And so to me, public libraries are all about connections and communities and continuing to build these connections. They’re also the archive of the stories of our communities and who else is keeping those stories, and while the internet is great, who’s putting up all the information that’s on the internet? And libraries actually do produce a lot of information that’s available on the internet. So it depends on what your mental model is of what a library is, and if it’s just books, most of the people that I start to talk with and I ask them more questions about, well, where do you think all the information on the internet comes from? It sort of stalls them out because they’re like, “Well, I, well, there’s news, and there’s some like…”. Yes, there’s all these other things, but what about things that relate to education? And what about when you really need to find something? I think that’s the other role that libraries plays. If you are really doing research, hardcore research, or just trying to find information, sometimes it’s not easy to find on the internet. I think the tools are going to change in the future. I think our jobs are going to keep changing, but I think that human connection part is vital in terms of helping people be successful. So I think libraries are about human connection.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. And a lot of times, I always say the internet has kind of given us like a bigger haystack to find things. And it’s like just more information. It doesn’t make things simpler. It made things, made more information that people have to dig through. So you need those kinds of skills that libraries can help you with.
Stacey Aldrich:
Right. And you’re also being manipulated too when you’re searching, because there’s ads and there’s formulas and there’s all kinds of things that are driving you to look at certain information. So, it’s a much more definitely, totally agree with you. It’s a much more complex information network that you have to have new skill sets, and I think libraries are also about helping people have the skill sets to navigate all of those new tools which are changing.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah, because, you know, I can search on Google “best movie” and you search on Google “best movie.” We’re not going to get the same results and people don’t understand that that’s not, it’s not some just objective thing out there you’re searching against. So, kind of related to that, what do you see as the library’s role in combating the spread of disinformation?
Stacey Aldrich:
This is a really interesting question to me, because we now live in a world where we don’t even agree on what’s true. And so what one person might say is disinformation, another person might rule out say, “No, that’s disinformation.” So I don’t know. Have you watched The Social Dilemma on Netflix about social media? And if you get a chance, I would watch it. I knew that we were being manipulated by social media and I honestly, I’m not a real Facebook person, and I really believe that relationships. There’s good reasons, there’s good and bad for everything. And I think people are using, you know, tools in different ways, but what is a challenge is how fast information can spread and how often times that information is not real at all. And once it’s out in the world, how do you roll it back? And so I think the challenge that we have right now is, is there a role for libraries to start having conversations about what is truth and what is information and how do we help people just have basic skill sets to manage dealing with information, because there’s also deep fakes now. So it’s not even just words, it’s now images. And now there are all kinds of, like people making software that these people don’t exist. They just create the software using AI and creating whole new humans that don’t even exist. So how do we, one, make sure that at least people are aware of what’s happening and how do we, I think we have a role to create conversations and to give people suggestions for how they can be smart about what they’re reading, and then I think I’ve always thought that, Oh gosh, I can’t remember. It was maybe 10 years ago. Somebody put out something about how cell phones, if you put them underneath the table, you can pop popcorn, they give off so much radiation or something. And I can remember a few friends sent it out and within minutes, one of the librarians had it debunked, she had cited the source and everything. I always felt like libraries are the perfect place to have this game of…. there’s another, there’s a game called Fact or Crap? And you read a question and people have to decide if it’s true or false. And I feel like libraries could do that. Take the latest thing that everybody is saying is true, like, Oh, you can grow Velcro. Well, you can’t really grow Velcro. There are things in nature that mimic things and we do biomimicry, but you don’t grow Velcro the way the site was telling you you can grow Velcro. So I think there are ways we can make light of things to make it easier for people to think about information, and I think it’s about having those conversations in our communities about how do we know something’s real or not? We partnered with, [Honolulu] Civil Beat, which is a local newspaper. And we did a whole information series and we had between 40 and 70 people show up for the series. And we had one conversation about how do you navigate this information? It’s information overload. How do you know what’s real and what’s not? We had a session with journalists who talked about how difficult it is, just managing their jobs when people are already tweeting out information. And you’re not even sure if that information is real and they’re onsite. So I think it’s, we had a lot of people just wanted to, you know, give me some ideas about what I can do. On the other hand, we also have people who don’t want us involved and they think anything we do to try to help people, they think that we’re censoring them. So we’ve been one of the libraries that put NewsGuard on all of our PCs, which NewsGuard is a little widget that you can add to your browser. And for new sites, it will add a little red flag or green flag or yellow flag. And it’s professional journalists who have professional standards that measure those standards against news producers. And then they tell you, you can, if you see a red flag, you can just put your cursor over it and click up. And if you want more information, you click on it and you can see why they get a red flag, like, they don’t correct wrong information. They don’t have a board. And then if you want to, you can contact the journalist who did it, and you can question them. And I remember when we first put it out, we had a few people say we were censoring them. And we’re like, we’re not censoring. You, you can still look at what you want to look at. This is for you to determine, you know, to understand where your news is coming from and you can take it or leave it. So it’s a fine line because again, we don’t all agree on what truth is and I hope that libraries can be a place that we can start having that conversation in a safe way.
Steve Thomas:
But before we get too deep into it, I guess I should ask why you want to run for ALA President, and what kind of priorities are you going to, what would be your kind of platform, I guess, if you were to be elected?
Stacey Aldrich:
Sure. So, I was a baby librarian back in the nineties, in the mid nineties and was lucky to enough to be a part of a large group of people who were building the SAILOR network in Maryland, which was one of the first statewide internet networks. And, I was hired by the state library to be a trainer. So early in my career, I was teaching school librarians and teachers and like librarians, real librarians about the internet was teaching them how to use Gopher. I don’t know how many people remember Gopher, it’s before the web was pretty, and so I spent a lot of time going and talking with libraries and there was this big transition happening in libraries because of the internet. People were really trying how to figure out the technology, they had to figure out what means. It goes back to one of the questions of how to use… What do you say to people who think the internet is everything? And I remember going back to my boss at the time was and saying, I feel like we need to have a Mary Kay Jamboree, and we need to get future focus because we’re kind of stuck in this reaction period. And I think we can be more focused on being proactive in creating our future. And so I started down a pathway of going to futurist conferences and working with futurists to do programming in our state around thinking about the future and future topics. And we had a really big plan. We sent library directors to conferences where there were big picture thinkers who were talking about all kinds of new technologies and information about society and just everything that’s changing. We went to the Consumer Electronics Show and looked at what tech is coming down the pike. And then we started having conversations and our library started building positive futures around these new things they were seeing. They’re taking that information of trends, bringing it back and saying, where are we now? And then how do we strategically come up with a plan for dealing with possible futures and using those? I feel like right now, we’re at that same spot. We are, you know, in the midst of this pandemic. And there’s going to be a lot of transition that we know is coming. And I really think that we should spend some time preparing for that transition and looking for where those opportunities that libraries can be there in their communities to provide that support through the transition, and what is the next role for our organization in the transition as well? So my platform is super simple. I really, you know, you only have year as a president. I can’t solve all the problems of all the worlds. We would still be working on the organization. We would still, of course, be working through all the challenges with EDI, and, we still have to do all this things, but the main focus would be having an organization wide conversation about the trends that are going to impact the way our society is. And the way technology is, the way we work, the way we are educated and have all kinds of big minds come and talk with us. And then as a group really brainstorm and talk about what does that mean to our different libraries and how do we take those trends and how do we see where we’re starting to see lines appearing in our communities? Cause sometimes a trend doesn’t appear immediately in your community. You might say, Oh, we’ll never see that, but it’s just because sometimes the future takes a little longer to get to some places and some places are further ahead, but I would hope that by the end of the year, that we could really put together a document about the trends that are important for us as a profession and as an organization and as communities and look at those trends and then come up with questions that we could take back and have conversations at our own communities, but also have them system-wide and then build into our natural practice foresight practice instead of like doing it once in a while or occasionally because the future is changing very rapidly and there’s been a lot of innovation during the pandemic. And so the more we know, and the more we just practice paying attention to what’s happening, the more opportunities we can find to be proactive and optimistic about the future. And we can plan for multiple possibilities because none of us know exactly what’s going to happen, but if, at least we’ve thought about it, just think if 10 years ago, if ALA would have done some kind of scenario planning and we would have thought about a pandemic, we would have already thought about a lot of things. So by the time it happens, you don’t feel overwhelmed, you know that, okay, we’ve thought this through, we have some strategies and we know we’re going to have to build, you know, in a different direction. But I feel like as an organization that wants to thrive in the 21st century, now’s the time for us to do that coming out of the pandemic. So I’m hoping that I’ll get to work with everybody to build the future.
Steve Thomas:
Speaking of the pandemic, can you talk about a couple of things that you guys have done in the Hawaii libraries that you’ve done to adapt to the pandemic? I’m not actually sure. I haven’t heard how the pandemic is, I know it’s in all 50 States, so it’s there in Hawaii, but how it’s really spread and what kind of timeline you guys have been on?
Stacey Aldrich:
We’ve been on the same timeline as most people, we’ve been lucky that we haven’t had as many cases, but of course we can’t have as many cases because we’re on an island and we don’t have as many resources. So it’s important for us to keep our levels down just because of the number of ventilators and the resources that we have. We can’t just like drive cross country or have a train drop off something to us if we were really remote. So for us, like a lot of libraries, we focused on digital in the very beginning and we added a whole bunch of services that we didn’t have before. So we added streaming media, we added more resources for parents and teachers, we started virtual programming, and we added an online library card for some, you know, they’ve been doing that for years for us. So the pandemic actually offered us an opportunity to innovate faster than we would have, and I don’t think we’re the only library that experienced that as we’ve been coming out of the pandemic, we’ve been looking at new opportunities to use technology to help us. So we’re right now working on a project called Aloha AI and we’re working with Oceanit, which is our local, I would call them, our Hawaii IDEO. They’re a thinking, making, problem-solving company. So they’re innovators and engineers. And, so they’ve created a Aloha AI. It’s simple for us. It’s just a glorified people counter, but it’ll let our staff know when we hit max in our buildings. And so we’re using that as a way to help our staff understand how many people are in the building. And also we’ll be able to post on our websites, so a patron could go to our website and see if we were crowded or not, and decide if they really wanted to come to the library. And, the other component to this AI project that I really like is, it was built around a curriculum for students, and so we’re going to have cohorts of students that will be invited to learn how to use the AI and think about that data and work with us to think about how we might have other uses in the future that are of course safe, and privacy is of course on the top for me in thinking about how we use AI. So it’s a mixture of helping us manage our data better about the people in our buildings, but it’s also about creating opportunities in our communities for students to have access, to thinking about AI, which is… It’s coming. It’s not going to go away and being able to have that early access, I think could maybe help some of them decide that that’s the field they want to go into. So again, it’s about opportunity. So we’ve been trying to find new ways to use technology. We just implemented a new app that people can check out books with their phone, so we’re trying out a whole bunch of different things. I think that’s what it’s done. Pandemic has given us opportunity to try new things and to see if those are the things that are important to our communities that help support what they’re trying to do.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. Like with your AI project, a lot of times with these new technologies, libraries are the first place people encounter these new technologies. Like that’s the thinking behind a lot of makerspace things like 3d printers and like, what are libraries doing with that? It was like, well, we’re introducing this technology to people that they, while it costs thousands of dollars, we can purchase those kinds of things and introduce it to people. And then in 20 years, when it’s you pick it up like a VCR and anybody can have it, they already know how to use it.
Stacey Aldrich:
Exactly. I so appreciate you saying that because I think that’s absolutely true. I always thought that libraries should be that place that people can try new things and they can experiment before it becomes even more, you know, intelligent or more mainstream, I guess is the word.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. Well, I mean, and the intelligence part of it, you know, we’re kind of, we have professional ethics. And so we were putting our privacy standards on top of it. I know a lot of people who are doing AI research may be just doing it to see what they can do and just letting it push the boundaries, not thinking about those kinds of things, but libraries provide that kind of filter there of using it responsibly.
Stacey Aldrich:
Exactly, exactly.
Steve Thomas:
And I did like also where you’re talking about, you know, continuing a lot of the work that ALA has already been doing. I think that’s one of the good things that the presidents do is that you kind of have a big initiative maybe, but that doesn’t, it doesn’t end when you’re done. And you’re kind of picking up the baton from the people behind you and you’re kind of continuing on like whoever’s the next president, you know, they’ll continue on with what Julius Jefferson is doing now, and then they’ll continue to the next person that just kind of goes and people continue going, I mean, there’s people doing things now that are, you know, way back 10 years ago that an ALA President may have introduced, and it’s a process.
Stacey Aldrich:
Exactly. Right. It’s been really interesting and I’ve been honored to be with two really awesome librarians on the ballot this year. I am amazed at the questions that people will ask. I think they’re fascinating. I’m really curious about them, but some of them, I think, I don’t know that I can solve that world problem in one year, but we can have a conversation about it. So I think, you know, for all of this, everybody sort of has a little bit of a different focus and, I think it’s just looking at, you know, what can we do together to keep moving forward? And there’s a lot to be done and it doesn’t end because as president, you don’t do everything, you still have an Executive Board, you still have the Executive Director, there’s still structure that you’re working within, and you’re not just coming in and waving a wand. And you can’t be like, “Now we will head in this direction!” You really are building.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. Well, and that’s why the process of hiring the new Executive Director was such a big deal because they’re the ones that are providing that continuity and kind of integrating all these new presidents’ visions and making it work within the whole organization. And so that’s a really big, important role. I know Tracie Hall has been doing a good job so far, and I have faith in her to continue doing a good job with that.
Stacey Aldrich:
Yeah, I really appreciate her deep thinking and for her future-forward strategies, I think she really is thinking long-term, and she’s good at seeing the things that are coming that we have to consider as an organization. And I think we need that, so it’s great to have her on board.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah, and you mentioned, you know, there are issues that you can’t solve in one year. And so we’ll just ask about one of those big ones that obviously it not going to get solved anytime soon, which is, like, racism and systemic racism in the profession and outside the profession. What role do you think ALA can have in helping libraries to address racism in the profession and dismantle white supremacist things in our own profession, and in the outside world, what kind of conversations can we start in our communities and just kind of, what do you see as ALA’s role in helping combat this issue?
Stacey Aldrich:
I think one of the things we absolutely have to do is as a whole organization have this conversation, I honestly don’t think we’re all on the same page about what we understand racism to be, or what we understand, you know, structures, systemic discrimination, which I think we’ve all seen in some way our entire careers. I think there’s a lot of different groups are working on it in ALA. And we have lots of different round tables and divisions and, we have the affiliates and then there are committees, there’s a ton of people having the same conversations. And I feel like for racism, we have to all get on the same page. Like I think we need some focused attention on some focused webinars or conversations where that’s what we’re all talking about. If it’s, we all read the same thing and then we have conversations. I think we have to first get on the same page about where we’re at and what I think we were talking about in another meeting today, and we were talking about how words matter. And I think we have to have the hard conversations too, that make us uncomfortable. And we have to find those things together that aren’t acceptable to some people we, weren’t aware of it, or we didn’t understand it and we need to understand it. So we have to find a way to hear everybody’s voice. And then we have to find a way, I think, as a large organization to have a value statement and some goals as an organization, I think we can keep talking about totally turn blue in the face, but I think we actually need some goals that we say these are our goals for our organization. And, you know, you can take those goals and think about what they mean for your organization. And then I think we need to share across the profession success stories of communities that have libraries that have done really great work around racism and supporting their communities and having conversations and how the needle gets moved. And you need to learn from those experiences that our colleagues are having. And so I think it really, we have to have a goal as an organization. I don’t think we do. I think we’re talking about it and the goal has to be something that people understand, and we’re all speaking the same language. And then how do we work together to make sure that our eyes are open and we’re wearing different lenses now. We can see things differently because we took the time to listen and you have to listen to the people who are experiencing the problem. I don’t have the solutions. I have not always said the right things, but I’m also self-aware when I do say things I shouldn’t, I mean, like, it’s building self-awareness and, moving that self-awareness into action and it just takes time. I don’t know. I don’t know that we’ve always honored everybody. We say we do, but we haven’t. And we haven’t been really up front about it. And now I think we just have to spend the time acknowledging that and figuring out how we move forward.
Steve Thomas:
Well, and I didn’t even think about this until just now, but I mean, in Hawaii you have your own indigenous population that has its own set of, it’s different from the Black experience and different from, I mean, it’s a completely unique experience in America, that what the indigenous Hawaiian people went through. I don’t know if a lot of people even understand the history of, that it wasn’t just, “Hey, we conquered, we just decided we wanted to make this thing a state!” Like, well, it’s a little more complicated than that.
Stacey Aldrich:
It is. And there’s a lot of, it’s very complicated and it, you know, it starts back with Captain Cook, and it goes forward with missionaries and then plantations that the owners of sugar and sugarcane and pineapple and overthrowing a monarch. And that, you know, there’s a lot of complicated history that is not okay in the 21st century. Never was okay, and how do you make sure that you’re supporting a culture that was crushed for so long and they weren’t allowed to speak their own language here? So it’s very interesting thinking about racism in Hawaii, because we’re not heavy on any one race. So we have a lot of different people of Asian Polynesian, mostly Asian Polynesian, and then you have Western culture, but we have our own problems for sure, our own challenges. And I think it’s being able to acknowledge those and finding space for everybody. I always believe in abundance, we ha there’s enough room, there’s enough room for everybody at the table. And so how do we, how do we create that in a way that isn’t just words, but it’s also followed through in the actions of, you know, who are in leadership roles, how we make investments, what companies we deal with, all those things are part of a value structure about how you support or don’t support, those values against racism or systemic racism.
Steve Thomas:
Well, in your job there, as the state librarian, how do you kind of personally encourage your staff to succeed and how do you kind of see those skills translating to being, to serving the ALA membership?
Stacey Aldrich:
So, well, one, I always like to have lots of smart, I know people are smarter than me around me, and I love encouraging that. I think the smarter the people around you, the further you can go. I think for me, I am always encouraging of people who have ideas. I might ask them to think about a few things ’cause sometimes things have political aspects. I like to say yes. So I’m curious about small conversations, not long drawn out, but figuring out ways when people do have ideas to say yes, and to make sure that people have the resources that they need. Sometimes people don’t want to circle back, but it’s good to circle back. Cause sometimes somebody knows something you don’t know. Right. So I try really hard. You know, we try really hard here to go where there’s energy and we have some amazing staff who just have done brilliant work and we want to keep supporting that, and then when we find people have skills in an area I love to encourage people to do things. Cause sometimes people are shy and they don’t realize that they can do so much more, and so just giving people, encouragement is really important. I’m lucky enough to work with 51 branches on six islands. So I don’t get to see everybody every day. I can’t just pop in the car and drive to Lanai. But we try really hard to, I try really hard to understand where people’s strengths are and I try to support them in those areas. And I think, you know, I think it’s a lot about communication too. We probably communicate more. I mean, communication is like the human bane of our existence. You know, you never can have enough for sometime then it’s not enough. I don’t know, communication is always a challenge, but I’m always open to talking with people and listening to what people have to say. My door is always open. So I think that listening component, I do bring that to the table where I really like to listen and hear what people have to say and then have a dialogue about what it is that’s important. So I think listening and just facilitating, you know, playing off of people’s strengths, I think are two of the things that I would hopefully bring to the organization.
Steve Thomas:
So to wrap everything up and kind of put everything in a little ball, what would be your pitch for ALA like library staff who are not members right now, how would you pitch the organization to them to encourage them to join?
Stacey Aldrich:
So this is a really great question and the way that I look at it, and, is that I think about the organizations I belong to and why do I belong to them? And for me, belonging to ALA is about investment. It’s an investment in the profession, it’s an investment in the community and it’s an investment in myself because I have all these opportunities to learn and grow from ALA. So I, when I think about like, who, where would you want to put your energy if you’re a librarian, where will you be connected to all the other people who are thinking about the same things that you’re thinking about, who may be thinking about new things that will help you think things differently, and who care passionately about the role that libraries play in all communities, be it academic, school, special or public, that when you belong to ALA you’re, you’re making that investment in yourself and you’re making that investment in your profession and your community. And I did leave for a little bit. I left one year, I was not happy about some resolution. I left ALA, but then I came back because ALA was the organization that I knew would connect me with the rest of the profession. And it is a growing, changing dynamic organization. I think that we want new people to become a part of it, to help us build ALA for the future. And I would hope that they would join us and make that investment.
Steve Thomas:
All right, well, thank you so much, Stacey, for coming on the show, and if people wanted to get in touch with you to kind of do follow up questions, do you have an email address or a way they can get in touch with you?
Stacey Aldrich:
Sure. And so I’m on Instagram, and just, stacey_aldrich_for_ala_pres. And then I have a podcast called the Future Curious Librarian that’s available on all big podcast platforms where I interview interesting people and friends who are building the future right now. So I have a podcast with friends from Carroll County, Maryland who have a robot named Pepper. And I’ve had another one with a friend, we were talking about Elon Musk’s Starlink, his new satellite network. And then the one that’s coming up is one about data and how we need to think about data with Denise Davis. So if you’re interested in thinking about new ideas and you can also comment on the podcast, I’d love to hear more from you and, and hear what you’re thinking about for the future.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. People who listen to this might be interested in podcasts.
Stacey Aldrich:
Yeah, they might!
Steve Thomas:
Thank you so much, Stacey and good luck in election.
Stacey Aldrich:
Thanks so much, Steve. Thank you so much for this time. Have a good one. Aloha.
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Steve Thomas:
Ed, thank you for coming on the show and to talk about your presidential run.
Ed Garcia:
Thanks for giving me the opportunity. I really appreciate it.
Steve Thomas:
So before we get into that too much, can you talk a little bit about what got you interested in the library profession in the first place?
Ed Garcia:
Yeah, so, you know, I think I had an interesting career path into librarianship. I’ve been a librarian now for almost 13 years, but before becoming a librarian, I actually worked on a couple of different industries. I was, for a long time, I worked in the music industry straight out of college as an undergrad. And I worked for almost 10 years at Sony music doing marketing for alternative music bands and other artists. So I dealt a lot with independent retail locations and, I had a seven state territory. And then after awhile I got a little, kind of tired of working in a corporate culture. You know, it’s a kind of a fun industry, but it’s still a corporate culture. And I really felt like I really wanted to, you know, offer more and do more to help people, and I started working in nonprofits and I worked at the American Diabetes Association, I ran the Rhode Island office. And at the same time I was like, I had a undergrad, I have a bachelor’s degree in history and I said, I want to do something something more. And I explored the library program at the University of Rhode Island. And I met the director at the time. His name was Michael Havener, he became a huge mentor of mine and basically got me to go to library school. And, so, 2008, I graduated, from the University of Rhode Island and I’ve been a librarian ever since. So it’s kind of interesting for me. It’s like I have, I bring this kind of corporate background and nonprofit background to my work. And I recall my first class in library school was management. And after the first class of like, Hey, you know, all my experience I have in marketing and communications and grant writing and fundraising is not going to be useless to me as a librarian. I kind of thought everything I’d done before, it was just not going to be relevant to me. So that’s kinda my career path to becoming a librarian, so it’s been almost 13 years.
Steve Thomas:
And how did you get to your current position?
Ed Garcia:
So, you know, at URI, they had a fellowship program called Prism, that was based loosely, I think, on the Spectrum Scholar program. And it was an IMLS funded program where they were trying to recruit more people of color, more diversity into the librarian field. So I received that fellowship and, as part of it, we were supposed to do a 20 hour paid internship, and I actually got an internship at Cranston Public Library. I lived in Cranston. I never stepped foot in the library here before. I came in and got an internship. And when I finished up grad school, there wasn’t any full-time positions at the library. So I left and went to become the assistant director at the Central Falls Public Library in Central Falls, Rhode Island. And then, a job opened up. I came back as a reference librarian and, you know, two and a half years later, the director retired and I’m like, I’m gonna apply for this job. I don’t have any aspirations knowing that they’re actually going to think they’re going to actually interview me at all, but they did, and they hired me. So it’s been eight years as the director here. And, so yeah, that’s how I got to be where I am now.
Steve Thomas:
So do you think about it in terms of, in your job now, how you can make the library more attractive to people like you were before? Like you’d never stepped foot in the library before? Like how do you attract those people to the library and sort of related to that, and not necessarily that this was your view, but other people who think the libraries are just irrelevant, how do you get those people in as well?
Ed Garcia:
Yeah. You know, that’s an interesting question. I had obviously been in libraries in the past, but I just had never come into this one. I think at the time, like many people, I had been a professional, I just kind of bought whatever I needed to read and that kind of thing. And, you know, through, through my early time here and you realize that there’s so much more that libraries do. So I remember when I first became the director of trying to build a relationship with our city and meeting with our economic development director. And he’s like, “Why do you wanna meet with me? What does a library have to do with economic development?” And I kind of explained to him the things that we do for workforce development and being an economic engine, and we’ve been able to build a lot of partnerships there over that time. And I think for the people that think libraries are irrelevant, you know, I always want to tell them that in my mind, it’s the only public space right now that you can enter with no expectation having to spend money and, you know, we can provide, you know, we’ve done a little bit this last couple years in Cranston. We’ve been able to provide a safe space for community conversations and community meetings, and you know, we teach libraries around the country, teach our users about technology, provide assistance with broadband, with so much stuff. And it’s almost like a social safety net, whereas, you know, there’s a lot of things that go on in the community that no one was already tackling and the library is always stepping up to try to tackle it. I just remember during the pandemic year of so many libraries that were, you know, starting the hotspot lending programs or parking lot wifi, I know in my library, we had librarians that were helping with the school department. They put a hotline together so if parents had problems with distance learning technology, our staff was talking them through those difficulties. So I think that libraries play such an important role that, if the people that haven’t been in the library just don’t realize it. And I know here, we just spent a lot of time educating people. You know, about that, it’s an integral part of my job is doing that. I think that, you know, my team does the amazing work with the public. I just want to make sure they have the resources to do the amazing work that they do. And so I spent a lot of my time telling that story to, you know, decision-makers around the state.
Steve Thomas:
Right. So what made you want to run for president of ALA, and what do you hope to accomplish as that? Like, what would be your main priorities there?
Ed Garcia:
So, you know, the reason I decided to, you know, when the nominee committee called and asked me if I was interested, I decided to run, was really to get to give back. I mentioned when I was at the University of Rhode Island and I had that fellowship. As part of it, they actually paid for us to go to ALA conferences as library school students. I know a lot of students don’t get that opportunity. And my first ALA conference was in 2006, I believe it was, it was in New Orleans the year, it was the first conference after Katrina to come to the city. And I remember we got involved in this program and helped go clean the campus on a community college. And it just as like, this is what I wanted, like the sense of helping people. And I learned so much from some amazing librarians so early on in my career and ALA has played such an important role that I just wanted to give back to the Association. So that’s kind of the reason why I’m running. I think that as far as my priorities go, I think, you know, I think we all know that the Association is facing some challenges that, I think the pandemic only exacerbated. You know, we’ve seen our revenue streams deteriorate and we’ve seen less member engagement. We’ve had financial difficulties and I’ve been on the Executive Board for the last three years. And we’ve been really trying to work on some of these issues. So it’s work that I really want to continue because I just want to see it through and to help move our Association forward. You know, like I want to, in our finances, I want to have more transparency and accountability, you know, the pivot strategy that we’ve been developing. I want to able to use some of my business background to help develop new revenue streams, but I also want to work on two or three other other main priorities for me. One is advocacy. I think ALA, through our PPA [Public Policy and Advocacy] office and our amazing member advocates do a fantastic job in advocating for libraries on a federal level. And that’s something that I want to amplify. I think at this moment in time, we have a new administration and a new Congress, and I think this is the perfect opportunity for us to finally, you know, push forward for universal broadband, for net neutrality, more funding for libraries. And I have significant experience in advocacy, you know, I’m the Legislative Action Chair for the Rhode Island Library Association, and I’ve worked a lot with members of Congress. I feel like I can bring something to the table there. I also want to really work more on member engagement. You know, we’ve had a lot of discussions over the last few years about member engagement, you know, more effective governance structures. And, I really want, I’ve had the opportunity over the last several months to meet with LIS programs around the country. I’ve been giving some guest lectures about advocacy, and I really want to reach out and visit, if I was to be elected, I want to visit library schools across the country and really talk to students, the students when I talk to them, they really inspire me, and I want to really learn what inspires them and what they really want out of her professional association, because they’re the next generation. And we need to kind of make sure that ALA moves forward in a way that they find useful. And I think finally, also, as far as member engagement and advocacy, I also really want to amplify the need and importance of school librarians. I’ve been seeing it, you know, we’ve seen it all across the country, especially during this pandemic where school librarians were the first to come up with innovative ways to help students, and help the instructor, help other teachers. And yet their jobs are getting shed all across the country and that’s been happening here in Rhode Island. So we’ve been really trying to work in Rhode Island on, on how we can show the importance of school librarians. And I want to do that at a national level as well. So those are some of the things that for me that are priorities, if I were to win.
Steve Thomas:
Okay. I’ve talked before, I’ve talked to presidential candidates in the past about these kinds of things, and it’s always kind of, you know, the president has their priorities and they want to push that through, but it’s always, you know, you’re also continuing the work from previous presidents and moving along, and that’s the importance of that continuity. So having the search for the Executive Director the last few years was a really important thing because that’s a really important role to keep that, you know, because president you’re there for a year, you’re not in and out, but, you know, it’s kind of, you’re in the spotlight for a year and then it’s onto the next person and their priorities. And, but that Executive Director, and then the Executive Council and…or the Executive Board and the rest of the Council… and all of this kind of works together to keep this continuity going and kind of, keep all these great initiatives going throughout the years, ALA generally keeps its focus on the things that you were talking about, like the organizational level and school librarians kind of as a whole, doing that. But the ALA president is also the president of the APA, the Allied Professional Association. Can you talk about how you would work in that role to advocate for library workers?
Ed Garcia:
Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, it’s really, right now, as libraries reopened, I think that it’s really important for us to be advocating for, the safety, the job security, and the wellness of library workers around the country. I think it’s really important. So whether that’s with ALA or ALA-APA, I think that’s a major priority of ours. And I think that ALA-APA does some great work. They actually have done some really good programs recently about mental wellness of library workers. I attended a webinar about, maybe a week ago about how we can work with caregivers on our staff make accommodations for them during this time. But I think that there’s other, there’s a lot more that we could do with ALA-APA and, you know, I would want to explore seeing that it’s a 501 C (6), I want to explore exactly what the boundaries are, but can we advocate directly, with institutions or, you know, municipal or local or state governments for library workers, could we provide legal assistance to library workers that maybe are, you know, laid off or treated unfairly? Could there be a program for that? Could there be a way for us to provide monetary assistance for furloughed library workers. I also think that we’ve heard a little bit about, and, you know, nationally, I think with the new administration, they’ve talked a bit about how we can, they’re talking about removing student loan debt, cancelling some of that. I haven’t heard that being talked about for grad program. So I would want ALA-APA to really advocate to say, if we’re going to do this for students and then our library workers need to be included in that because we, you know, they’ve been doing amazing work around the country always, but during this pandemic specifically, and they’re not being treated as, you know, first responders or second responders, in fact, a lot of times they’re just not being in the conversation at all. And I think that’s a way to really help some of our librarians workers that are really struggling. So those are some of the things I think I’d like to explore with ALA-APA. Again, I think I would have to be educated a little bit more on what exactly you could do as a 501 C (6).
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. That always the tricky thing. When people ask ALA or APA to do things, it’s like, well, we can maybe, but there are, you know, based on tax structures and stuff, there’s only so much you can do sometimes and you can’t directly do what you, maybe you want to do, but can kind of influence it in different ways, but maybe not as directly as you might hope to, and you did talk a little bit about, in that vein, when you were in school, you know, you got these, they sent you to those conferences and stuff. Do you think ALA can do more of that kind of thing of making it, especially in an era like this, where people have lost their jobs, to make it easier for people to not only maybe join or you can just come to conferences and, make it easier on them financially for that?
Ed Garcia:
I mean, I think this last Midwinter virtual conference, we actually had a great program that allowed students, and furloughed library workers to attend for free, I want to see that continue, and, you know, for ALA Annual or ALA Annual Virtual 2021, and I think that if we could do that, I think there’s a way to,you can bring those students in by giving them opportunities to attend the conference for free and showing them how important ALA is. And hopefully they become regular members, you know, down the line. So I think it’s definitely a good thing to do now, but also kind of a good recruitment way to transition people into full membership into the Association. So I would want to continue that for sure.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I know you talked a little bit about, before we talked about sort of you, while you’re running for ALA president, you talked about your staff a little bit. Can you talk about ways that you work with your staff and encourage them to succeed and how that those kinds of skills can translate to your ALA presidency, if you should win?
Ed Garcia:
Yeah. You know, I really believe in building my team and building them up and giving them opportunities to succeed and move on in their professional careers, whether it’s, we give them enough experience at the end of moving on to another library to become a higher position or they become involved in a professional association and want to give them the room to do that. So that’s something that I do, I take, you know, special pride in doing, you know, we have an amazing team here and, like I was saying for me, my job is to make sure that they have the resources to do the amazing work they do. I’m constantly in awe of the work that our team does in the community. And I feel like I’ve built a level of like, I’m very good at team building and bringing people together, whether it’s on my team or working with other community groups, to kind of make positive change. I think that’s some skills that I would bring to the ALA presidency, really knowing how to build teams from people with different viewpoints, bringing them together, and then hopefully, you know, building for a positive outcome, a positive change. And so that’s something that, you know, I take special pride in, you know, the amazing team we have here. And definitely something I think that could bring to ALA.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. And like we were saying earlier, I mean, it is a team effort cause you’re working with the Executive Director of the Executive Board, the whole council and the rest, all the membership. So that is a really important skill to have.
Ed Garcia:
Yeah. You know, I think that, you know, I’ve been on the ALA Council for three, three terms. I’ve been on it for 10 now. And I obviously have it on the Executive Board. I was on the Board when we hired our new Executive Director, you know, we had to make a lot of difficult decisions, making the conferences virtual, selling the office building. Those are all decisions that were made when I was on the board. And, you definitely learned through the ALA governance, that sense of like, if you can build teams, you can move the Association forward on a specific goal. So, definitely some experience that I have in the ALA level.
Steve Thomas:
Another issue that libraries are tackling and have been for… moreso I guess the last few years, but even before that is misinformation, disinformation. What kind of role do you see in libraries in tackling that concept?
Ed Garcia:
Yeah, I think that libraries of all types could play a really important role in this. You know, we do a lot of instruction, even if it’s a public library, we do a lot of instruction and it’s kind of unofficial and information literacy, but I think that especially academic librarians and school librarians can play a really important role in information and media literacy, teaching their students at whatever level, the way to discern factual information versus that disinformation or misinformation. I think school librarians in particular can play a critical role in doing that when they’re, you know, working with students that are in the, you know, elementary, middle and high school, I think that’s really important, because you’re teaching them about information, how to find information and not just look up anything that they find on the web , and find that’s factual. But I think there’s also other things that we can do. I’ve actually, I know I’ve been having conversations here in Rhode Island with some academic librarians and around in Massachusetts and a few of the communications schools about this topic and how we can, how libraries can play more of a role. Is there a legislative option that we can help put into play? I know we’ve had discussions about there used to be the fairness doctrine, which called for our media to actually have multiple, both viewpoints of things and that was discontinued in the eighties. So can that be brought back? And I think that, you know, I would love to see librarians become involved with fact checking sources like PolitiFact or other places where librarians actually help do the fact checking on a lot of what we see out there, because I think that that would be, most people in the community, you know, would think that, would know that librarians have that authoritative way to check out a source in a way that is not taking a political side, but just getting into the facts and would be a trusted source. So I’d love to see that somehow something will happen, librarians becoming more involved in fact checking, but, yeah, I think there’s a definitely a role for us to play, you know.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. And I agree. I think school librarians especially are, because that’s sort of where you’re learning those skills in the first place, and if you don’t learn them, then you know, it gets harder to learn things as you get older or to get things really ingrained in you at least. It’s harder to get those things to stick as you get older. Another issue, obviously that’s not new at all, it’s as old as humanity maybe, is racism and, specifically systemic racism in libraries and then outside of libraries, even outside the profession, just in the world at large. How do you see, and I know this is not a topic we can solve in the five minutes we’re going to talk about it here, but, how do you think the ALA can work to help libraries dismantle white supremacy and racism in the profession and maybe a little bit, even in the wider world?
Ed Garcia:
Yeah, so, you know, I think we should definitely be striving for more inclusive library community, which means to promote equity, diversity inclusion, you know, across our profession and our Association, I would also want to have accessibility there as well, but I think before ALA can help to do that around the profession, dismantle white supremacy and racism in the professional, we need to make sure that we’re sending an example doing it within the Association. So I know that, you know, I’m proud that last year, I was a member of the most diverse Executive Board in the history of our Association and we released several statements acknowledging the racist past of the Association. So I think that’s a good first step, but I definitely think that we, you know, we need to do more to make sure that we are looking at those things across the Association and making sure we have equitable representation at all levels of participation in the Association and then that, you know, that provides an example for us to go out and do that work in our communities and our profession. I know here in my city, in Cranston, we’ve been doing a lot of work with this in our community over the last several years, we actually helped start a community initiative called OneCranston. And we got to a $400,000 federal grant from the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston to do this. And we had been working, originally thought we were gonna be working on, you know, creating more social cohesion in the community with, we have a lot of new communities that have been coming into the city, a growing Southeast Asian population, a growing Latino community. And we’ve about two years into that, we said we really need to do a lot more in this community with EDI and anti-racism work, and then so we’ve kind of really focused in on that. The library actually hosted several really great community conversations. Again, I’m mentioning libraries as a safe place for that. We did a lot of those here, and we actually received another grant at the library to host racial equity training for our Cranston leadership, so that all of our city leaders, department heads of all the city departments, especially of the ones that work with the public, or are public-facing – police, fire, public works. Other community leaders would come in and do this really fantastic racial equity training done by the Racial Equity Institute from South Carolina. And we were actually going to be continuing those efforts, but of course the pandemic happened, and then we kind of had to put a lot of it on hold. So we need to, we’re now planning on how we get back to that? We actually just received… so the group districts need another grant from the Doris Duke Foundation at $25,000 grant that the library is a part of it. We’re actually right now doing surveys of our staff and planning on doing focus groups to make sure that, we are not only providing an equitable workplace, but also that we’re providing the right kind of service to the community. We know we provide a fantastic customer service, but are there anything, are there implicit biases that our staff has, competencies they don’t have that are unconsciously doing things that are making certain communities in the city not want to come use the library. So that’s our big effort this year that we’re going to be working on. So, I think that, you know, we want to have those conversations in ALA. I think that we’ve done some good work in my community that can help hopefully tell those stories, you know, in ALA. But I think definitely acknowledging the racist elements of our Association to kind of move forward and show the example is the first step.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. And I think now ALA is actually showing a good example of, we have a wonderful Black woman as Executive Director now. So that’s a good example that we can show and that we’re trying to live by our principles. And I think the ethical component of librarianship I think is a really important part of the profession. So that’s important.
Ed Garcia:
Yeah. I think it’s always important for us to, you know, in our communities to make sure our staff reflect the community, that’s work we’re trying to do here. You know, we have a lot more work to do. Also our trustees, to make sure our trustees reflect the community. We’ve just now, this last year, we now have two new trustees that are people of color that we didn’t have, for the last 12 years, we didn’t have, and I think in ALA, you’re right about our new Executive Director, you know, but I think there’s also work to be done in ALA staff, as a whole to make sure that ALA staff does, you know, reflects that our profession, our communities more, as well as this leadership in the Association, making sure that we’re very intentional and making sure that there’s diversity in all of the parts of the Association and all levels, I think is really important step to take.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. And I do think it’s important obviously to do at all levels. I think it’s good symbolically, too, to have it at the top. Because I always hear, especially companies like Apple will say, “Yeah, we’re great. We’re having all this diversity!” And you look at their executive board, it’s like, white, white, white, white, white, like all your leaders are white people. So it’s good to go all the way down, but you want to go all the way up as well. So that’s, I think, it’s a good first start. I think so. So, the final thing I want to ask about is to a general kind of thing that a lot of people, obviously not every library staff member is a member of ALA. What would be your pitch for ALA to those staff who are not currently members to encourage them to become members? What’s the benefit of the organization to them?
Ed Garcia:
Yeah. You know, I think, a couple of things I would say there is, I always love when people ask me this question, I always want to explain that, you know, at some level, just the advocacy work that ALA does for libraries is worth being a member, even if you’re not engaged in any other way, because we always need to have the funding to do the great work that we do legislatively. But, you know, again, I tell the story a lot about how I became involved and how I just met so many great, I just learned so much, it’s the only place that I really felt that I’ve learned about different types of librarians. I learned from my academic library colleagues, school librarians, you know, obviously I’m a public librarian and I just learned so much from being at ALA when I come in for the conferences, from the people that I meet and work with there. But I think that that is an invaluable tool, to kind of, you know, grow in your career, in your profession. So that’s, those are the things I think are really important. You know, and if some people, I know there’s library workers that can’t afford it, and I always plug the, you know, the state chapters I think are another great way to be involved and get involved. But I think that I would also, you know, one of the things I think we need to do a better job of, as I mentioned earlier is just to, when you talk about member engagement, just to make sure that we’re providing what the pathways people want into the Association and always be listening to members and nonmembers that I’ve mentioned library students, you know, are there good pathways for non-degreed library workers to become part of ALA, and find a home there? So I think it’s a lot of listening and, you know, talking to those folks and hearing what they think about ALA and hearing how we can help them find a path, is a good way to do that. So I think those are some things that I would like I would love to do, you know, as president that I mentioned earlier is to really listen and have those conversations.
Steve Thomas:
Okay. Well, great, Ed, thank you so much for coming on the show and talking to the listeners about your values and why you want to run for president and all these great things, I think, but if people want to learn even more about you, how can they get in touch with you or ask you follow-up questions?
Ed Garcia:
Oh yeah. You know, thanks, thank you for the opportunity to be on today, really appreciate the opportunity. My campaign website is, is edforala.com. So people can go to that and see more about my campaign, my candidacy, my vision. There’s an email address there, edforalapresident [at] gmail [dot] com that they can certainly email me, you know, at any time and try to answer questions and I’m on social media, so facebook.com/edforalapresident, and I’m also on Twitter @edgarcia401. So, they can reach me in a myriad of ways and I’d be happy to interact and answer any questions that members have for me.
Steve Thomas:
All right. Well, thank you so much and good luck in the election.
Ed Garcia:
Thanks very much. Appreciate it.
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Steve Thomas:
Lessa, thank you for coming on the show today.
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Thank you so much for having me, Steve.
Steve Thomas:
Before we kind of get into your candidacy and such, can you talk about a little bit about how you got interested in the library profession in the first place? I know you’ve been working in libraries for a very large chunk of your life.
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
I have been! Probably just about half of my life, but interestingly, I actually grew up in libraries, but didn’t really see it as a career opportunity. So my mom is a community college library services technician, and she has been at El Camino college since before I was born. And so I grew up, you know, going with her to work after school when my grandma was on vacation or would just kind of sick of me. I mean, I would help her process books, you know, put card catalog in order and all of that. And I was, of course, a public library kid, you know, once I got a little bit older, my local public library was the only place I was allowed to go by myself after school. And so that’s where I learned how to be, you know, independent and when I got really mad at my grandma, that’s where I ran away too. I was like, “She’s never gonna find me in the library,” but when I was a kid, I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to be an elementary school teacher or a vet, but I was like, let’s try this teacher route first. And, when I was in undergrad, I was working at Borders books at the same time. And so during those days, you know, public libraries were still well-funded and a couple of Los Angeles Public Library librarians came in with their end of the fiscal year slush fund and went on a spending spree. And I was like, “Who are these people?” They’re like, “Oh, they’re librarians. “And I was like, “Wait, that’s a thing? I can, like, go spend money??” So it started off with books right, that love of books, which I think is what brings a lot of us in, but really what really attracted me when I started doing more research was, you know, that it was service oriented. I got to work with people. I got to help them achieve their goals, which is a lot of the things that really appealed about teaching to me. So I went through two days of the credential program in California, and decided that teaching wasn’t for me. You know, I heard about all the passionate things that the other folks in my class loved about teaching, and a lot of them were already in the classroom. And other than being a student, I had never been in the classroom. And I was like, Oh, I don’t know. I don’t have like, quite that same kind of passion. You know, I see myself as experiencing these similar things in a different way, but also having something that’s a little more research oriented. And so I was like, let me really explore this public library track. So I went into my local public library and asked to volunteer because I was like, I’m not going to get stuck doing this two days of a credential program again, with, with a master’s degree and decide this isn’t for me, and luckily the library manager was like, well, I know you want to volunteer, but we actually have a page position open. Would you like to be a page and get paid? And I was like, I’m a starving student. I would absolutely love to become a page and get paid. And so that started my library career. I got the hands-on experience. I decided that an MLS was something I wanted to pursue. And I was able to work my way up from page to library clerk, to eventually librarian getting to do all the same things. You know, one of the things that scared me about the classroom I should say is I was like, I’m going to be in a classroom with 30 kids all day when I can do storytime for half an hour, and they have supervision with them? I was like, this has all of the hallmarks of exactly what I want. And I have not looked back a day since.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. That’s similar to, because I had worked in bookstores and stuff before I got into libraries, but then I started working at Emory University because my wife was going there to get her public health degree, and I kinda got the job on the library on campus just to kind of be there and like, “Oh, we can have lunch together. Cause I’ll be on campus and you’ll be on campus!” But I realized, I think I could merge those two things together or like the bookstore thing and then the academic library thing because I was like, academic libraries is not really my thing, but then public libraries is like that perfect intersection between those two things, because it’s sorta like bookstores, except I’m not finding something for somebody to sell it to them. I’m just getting it just to help them. So, that’s good. I was completely book-oriented when I first started as well. But yeah, you quickly switch and understand that it’s more about, you know, community and things like that of connecting people to information.
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Absolutely. And I will say also one of the things when I was working at Borders is I was like, I would love to do this job forever if I didn’t have to charge people for books and if I could get paid more doing it and both things happen.
Steve Thomas:
And it’s not often library people get to say, “Oh, I get paid more than…” something else.
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Very true.
Steve Thomas:
So, a lot of times, you know, when people are writing articles about libraries, it’s always, there’s always, libraries are irrelevant in the age of the internet. Google has made libraries irrelevant. Obviously, well, I’m going to assume you think that’s wrong. And then, why are libraries still important in the 21st century?
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
So it’s a good premise to start with. I do think that that assertion is wrong. And interestingly also in library school, my original faculty advisor, cause I switched faculty advisors and you’ll find out why in about a second is when my advisor found out I wanted to be a public librarian. She said that is a dead end road and public libraries are going to be gone within the next 15 to 20 years. And I was like, “Well, you know you teach in an LIS program, right?”, first of all. And she was much more on like the informatics side of it. And so I thought that was interesting. I changed faculty advisors very quickly to the magnificent Clara Chu, but it’s just incorrect. And I think that right now, as we’re going through this pandemic, it is ever apparent the role that libraries play in our society. You know, whether it’s a community connection, you know, folks coming to programs, of folks having meetups with other community members, it is a third place for everyone and it’s a free third place. And I think that that’s really important, but it’s also super important, you know, as we’re looking at students and digital equity for folks who don’t have access to the internet at home and don’t have access to the resources that they need. Sure, everything is online supposedly, but what happens when you can’t get online? You know, everybody saw that image of two kids sitting in front of taco bell, trying to use their wifi and that’s despicable, you know, Council passed the resolution that, you know, broadband is a human right. And that’s what I think the role of libraries right now is, is ensuring that we have community spaces for people who need it, that we have places of exploration and learning and community and bringing different points of view together and making sure that everyone has access to this fundamental human right.
Steve Thomas:
Exactly. So, that kind of leads them to, why did you want to run for ALA president? And what are your priorities as a candidate and what would be your big push and your big issues?
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
So when I was chair of the Steering Committee on Organizational Effectiveness, at the same time that I was also on the ALA Executive Board, I really had the opportunity to dig deep into the current state of our Association. You know, we are in a period of great, great transition. We have, we’re looking at issues of financial stability, we are looking at changing member expectations, and we are looking at a call to become a truly inclusive and equitable institution. And so with those three things kind of popping out at me and seeing the passionate work of our 57,000 members and how invested our members are in our Association really inspired me to run for president. You know, I think that the work that I did on SCOE is really going to inform, you know, I called out those three main areas that will likely be the focus of my presidential year, but, you know, it’s not just my year. I think, you know, like my slogan for the campaign is “Leading Together for Change.” And it’s because what I saw through the work of SCOE is that we can’t do this work alone and we can’t do this work siloed. Trying to do it alone and trying to do it within just our division or just our round table or just our little niches is, I think, what has caused a lot of the issues and really prevented us from becoming the inclusive institution that we know that we can be. So I do hope, and I think that we can lead together for change for an Association and a profession that practices racial, equity, inclusion, and anti-racism, that models, organizational excellence and sustainability in all of its forms and commits to our core values through partnerships that amplify our basic ideals, like Freedom to Read Foundation, ALA-APA, the Allied Professional Association, or National Associations of Librarians of Color, our chapters. There are so many groups that we can work together with, and I think that that’s going to be really essential for us moving forward.
Steve Thomas:
And that seems like something that, and we can apply this to how you would be as president, but something that you probably use those kinds of skills of working together with people in your everyday job. Are there other things, other ways that you work with your staff to help them succeed that would help you, I think, as ALA president?
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Absolutely. So with my staff, so I started off as a children’s librarian and love youth services, but I’m now the Adult Services Assistant Manager. And one of the reasons that I moved over to that is because the staff that I supervise and the staff that I support are part-time librarians. And so a lot of them are new to the profession and, you know, they’re looking for a full-time job ,and I’m here to help them gain the experiences and the skills that they need to get those full-time jobs. And so I really think that it’s important for them and, you know, for all of our staff in our department, to experiment, to seek out new tools and training, especially right now, as you know, I think that we’re kind of reinventing ourselves, right? And we’re reinventing what we’re going to be like with our new normal, post-pandemic. And so I think that by listening to each other and really identifying where we all want to go in the future, I think that that supports my staff and gives them what they need to figure it out. Because I know that even for instance, when I started off in my own career, I was like, I’m going to be a public librarian forever, but that’s not necessarily true. You know, like the work that I’ve done within ALA, I was exposed to a lot of different opportunities that are available. And so I think that allowing room for risk and allowing room for experimentation and growth is important, you know, for staff, but also for us as an Association.
Steve Thomas:
Okay. Yeah, that sounds, that sounds great. And an issue you talked about just a minute ago taps into something else I wanted to make sure to talk about, and that’s tackling systemic racism, not only in the Association, but in just kind of the profession as a whole. I mean, this is work that we all have to do, but how can ALA be a leader to help libraries work through this issue of dismantling white supremacy, of doing anti-racist work, and just addressing racism in the profession as a whole.
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
I mean, like you said, Steve, you know, this is all of our work to do, and it’s not new work, right? This work has been done since, before I became a librarian, since before EJ Josey became a librarian, since Clara Stanton Jones was, you know, ALA president. And so I think that it’s important for us to acknowledge that this is a really long-term thing that we’re working on, and it’s something that we have to do every day. But I think that for the profession and in relationship to ALA specifically, we need to start at home, right? Like we need to model within the Association what it needs to look like for libraries everywhere. And so part of that is making it an expectation that it is every single person’s work to do and giving every single person the tools to be able to do that. You know, so much of the work relies on the Office for Diversity, Literacy, and Outreach Services to develop training and to help folks understand where it is, but not even everyone understands all that ODLOS has to offer, all the work that’s already been done. And so I think that sometimes we end up in these cycles where we’re kind of doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different result when we did what we did at the time that it started, and now we need to rethink how we’re doing things for the group that we have today for the thought process that we have today. And so I think, you know, when I was on the Executive Board, one of the resolutions that we put forward was for all of the ALA strategic priorities to be identified and viewed through a social justice lens. And I think that we need to do that for every single thing that we do. It needs to be through a lens of equity, diversity, and inclusion, you know, in ALA and within our institutions and to model what that looks like so that folks have examples. You know, one of the conversations that I had with staff recently is equality is not the same as equity, right? And we’ve all seen the picture of the kids standing in front of the fence and acknowledging that difference. Right? That’s the common one! But applying it to practice and applying it to what it looks like every day in our library is something completely different, and so being able to break that down for folks, I think is important. And knowing that, you know, like ODLOS can come to your library and do a training for you and knowing that those resources are out there, I think is what is going to help us keep going forward and acknowledging that, you know, every day is anti-racist work. And if we’re not being anti-racist then according to Kendi, we are being racist. And so we have to be intentional and acknowledge it and just do it.
Steve Thomas:
Right. Exactly. And not just sort of in the same way that a lot of people wanted to say when President Obama was elected and go, “Oh, Black president, racism’s over.” It’s like, it’s great that we have Tracie as our Executive Director. That’s a great model, I think, to have, as a Black woman as the leader of our organization. But that doesn’t mean the work is over in ALA, where we’re like, “Oh, look, a Black woman is leading us. So the end!” Like, no, let’s look at further down the ranks in ALA and how many people of color there and other marginalized communities, I mean, how much are they represented in the organization? Because, you know, we can have these conversations, all we want, but conversation only gets you so far and you have to actually translate that into action at some point.
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Absolutely. You know, and so one of the roles that I’m in right now is Executive Director of the Asian Pacific American Librarians Association. And I’m a past president of APALA as well. And I was on the steering committee for the Joint Conference of Librarians of Color in 2018. And that’s where we’re like, we are tired of talking about it. We need to do things. Here are ways that we can, you know, we don’t, we want to exist as affinity groups. We don’t want to exist as the National Associations of Librarians of Color and constantly have to push against what is happening and remind folks that this work isn’t over. And so I’m really hopeful though, that I think that we are primed in that spot to really take action. We just all have to be committed to do it together.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. And I think a lot of times something people need to get out of the habit of, and I will say, this is mostly, you know, I’m straight white male, stereotypical, whatever. But I mean, like, it feels like the white community was kind of, the first instinct is to say, “Well, you tell us how to fix the problem, and then we’ll fix it.” It’s like, and then this came to me recently, it’s sort of the Pottery Barn rule, you know, we broke it, so we have to fix it. You know, like part of that is listening to other people’s voices, but it’s not people of color’s job to fix racism. And that doesn’t mean, you know, obviously that people of color can’t also be racist against other people, or can’t be biased in other ways, not necessarily racism even, but, you know, I think that listening is such a big part of that. And then I like what you’re talking about, there’s tools that are provided, so, I mean, there are some guidance that can be pushed out there, but it’s up to everybody to pick up those tools and use them.
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Absolutely. And I think that you bring up a really good point of this, you know, you broke it, you buy it, kind of a thing is, you know, how were these institutions created? You know, when we talk about systemic racism, what does that mean? It means that a lot of our institutions, including libraries were created to keep certain types of people out. And so I think that when we really recognize that and we get to the root of it, you know, like with the Government Alliance on Racial Equity and the work that they do with government institutions to identify the real systemic issues, then that will allow us to apply those tools that we have to make it. But yeah, we have to do it together and, you know, I’m half white also. I am multiracial. So, you know, I also take some, I think, extra responsibility for that as well. You know, like my family was, you know, I’m a Daughter of the American Devolution, technically, you know, they gave me scholarship money. And so I think that, you know, as a daughter, when I was there, I was like, this is our responsibility. Also, you know, this is what our ancestors did. This is what, the tools that they brought with them and the harm that they inflicted, you know, and being multiracial and having a Daughter of the American Revolution on one side and being an indigenous native Hawaiian on the other side, you know, there’s a lot of conflicts in between there that I think also helps me to see where some of those bridges can be made and where some of that work can be done. But that’s a little bit of a digression, but sorry.
Steve Thomas:
Oh, no, no, it’s all right. I mean, I guess it’s hard to have these conversations and say, let’s talk about it for five minutes and then move on!
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
We could be here all day!
Steve Thomas:
Right. I was thinking, though, when you mentioned Daughters of the Revolution, and then also the past of libraries being kind of part of this is that, you know, we all look that, “Oh, well, it wasn’t that great to have Ben Franklin starting public libraries!” is like, but that was for his rich friends and they had to pay and they just wanted to share their books together. So it’s, sort of from the beginning, there was an exclusionary process to what… the whole “free for all” thing is a pretty, I don’t know, probably 20th century invention, and then we’re still working on it to make libraries accessible to everybody. You talked about your indigenous background and I’d mentioned that subject to, you know, the other, the other candidate, Stacey who’s director of the Hawaii libraries that the Hawaiian population has, indigenous Hawaiian population, has its own story of oppression in America that’s separate from, any other, I mean, even indigenous people in the continental United States, because it’s the overthrow of a monarchy and all this history that is just unique to there, that they have to tackle as well. So it’s not, we can’t just look at one bias and tackle that it’s kinda gotta be overall. And again, you can’t solve it in five minutes. No real question there.
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Just a statement of fact, but I think that’s an important, you know, thing to recognize also is that within our indigenous and our Native American and our Native communities, is that our experiences have so much overlap of an underlying oppression and takeover. But how we got there is, is different for each one. Then also, you know, how we have been able to maintain our cultures and what that looks like within institutions like libraries and what that looks like in terms of, you know, like me being born and raised in the diaspora. You know, my experience is completely different and it’s completely different because I don’t have the same kinds of connections, you know, to our land and, you know, more access to our culture. So like for instance, when my dad was growing up, he grew up during the Hawaiian Renaissance, right? Because the Hawaiian language was outlawed until I think it’s 1983, and so like my grandparents weren’t taught to speak Hawaiian, but when my dad grew up, it was, we need to learn all of this stuff. And my grandparents were leaders of the Hawaiian culture movement in Southern California, you know, working with hula groups and starting all of this, which I think is where like my service-oriented personality comes from. And so growing up in that light, it’s been really interesting just to see all that, that the Hawaiian community has been able to accomplish in Hawaii and to figure out how I can also bring that to our diaspora communities and how we can continue that revitalization since we’re also spread out right now.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. And it’s great that these different cultures and groups were able to keep that going within themselves. You know, even when the language is outlawed, somebody is keeping the language going along because that stuff would be gone, you know? Cause like you said, a lot of native languages were outlawed and like, you were required just to speak English, and so a lot of these things could have died off if they had not kept them going underneath. And it’s so tenuous, you know, so I’m just glad that they did that archiving work, even if it’s just orally or whatever, just to keep it going. So that’s great.
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Yup. Yup. Which it shows the importance of oral cultures also.
Steve Thomas:
So kind of related to that, I wanted to talk a little bit about the concept of, like, neutrality of libraries, because a lot of times people want to, again, this is not one of those five minute wrap up the whole conversation things, but we want to be, there’s sort of the two sides of it, some people want to be like completely objective or want to pretend like they’re completely objective, but then we also have… we’re an organization that values our professional ethics and then ethics sort of presumes that you’re going to make choices, which so, I mean, that’s just, I don’t even know if I have a specific question there, but do you have any thoughts on that kind of that concept? And I know the whole meeting room thing is something we can get into as well. And that’s a whole other thing as well, but do you have any kind of overall like broad thoughts on that topic?
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Yeah. I think that libraries are not neutral. Like I will just go out there and say it, you know, like you said, we make choices every day, right? And we, I can, we can say that also based even on this conversation that we’ve had, that we’re not neutral because at our start, we were making choices, you know, libraries being segregated. That’s a choice. That’s not neutral. If you want to be truly neutral, you just, you don’t do anything. You just sit there and you’re like, this is a book. This is what’s in it. Here you go. You have no interaction. You’re not really looking at what your community needs. And I think that when we say that we’re neutral, we’re trying to let ourselves off the hook a little bit from really admitting that yes, we do make choices about what we put in our collections, we do make choices about what programs we give, you know, we provide for our communities. We do make choices, you know, like if we’re academic librarians about what our search topics are, about, you know, if we’re in a tenure track or not, if we’re in a community college or a four-year instance, all of these are choices that lead to not being neutral. And so I think that, you know, we can continue this conversation, but once we all kind of accept that and accept that the concept of intellectual freedom does not have to be tied to this idea of neutrality and they can coexist, and social justice can also exist with intellectual freedom. You know, the intellectual freedom committee and the Freedom to Read Foundation, both have task forces on looking at the intersection of intellectual freedom and social justice that are beginning to do their work. And I think that those conversations are really going to help us to hopefully be able to somewhat put this conversation to rest, because I think that’s part of what’s holding us back from really, you know, dismantling systemic racism within libraries also is it’s like, well, we have to represent the racist. Do we? I mean, we need to know what those ideas are. We need to understand them, but that’s different from promoting them. And those are two totally different things. And you know, it is a nuanced conversation. We could be here all day, but I think once we start understanding that that’s not a thing, we will really be able to move forward.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. I know it’s a typical, especially internet argument thing to go right to Hitler or whatever, but does every library need to have Mein Kampf in it because we need to understand Hitler, or can we get books about Hitler that puts him in context. And so you understand what it is and that’s even related, I guess, to the Confederate monument thing, nobody’s saying that we should forget the Confederacy ever happened. It’s putting up these statues that are heroic things of men on horses and swords, and it’s like, you’re praising them. That’s different than a museum context or a history book context. And as you’re talking, too, I also was thinking a lot of this I think is tied to accountability, which is coming up a lot in the news these days too, is that we don’t want to be accountable for our actions. So it’s like, Oh, well, we’re neutral so we just can’t, we can’t make a decision on that. We just don’t make a decision at all. We just don’t make a statement on it. But as you said, just what you buy in your collection is making a statement, or not buying in your collection. So ALA’s main mission is about supporting, sort of libraries as a whole, as a broad topic, but a lot of times people want to hear what ALA has to say about library workers specifically. I know a lot of times it’s hard because ALA’s tax structure, it makes it hard to make certain kinds of statements and this, that, and the other, and people don’t always understand that part of it. But the president of ALA is also the president of the Allied Professionals [Association], which can talk about library workers. So in that role, can you talk about how you would advocate for library workers?
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Absolutely. So one of the things that I am actually most excited about in pursuing this presidency is building up ALA-APA, because I think that APA has been underloved and underfunded for a long time, and I think that what it started as, you know, mostly certification programs and kind of like continuing education, is not what we need it to be today. And so I am very excited to explore what kind of support we can provide as a 501 C 6 to library workers and what kind of voice we can have. You know, I think that, especially having served on the Executive Board, you know, because ALA-APA doesn’t even have one full-time staff member, so it’s, you know, to the group right now, and they don’t have a source of income other than, you know, kind of like if ALA asks them to produce something for ALA, and that’s how the money flow happens. And so I think if we can figure out how to really get that support, then we can do a lot of really interesting stuff that library workers need right now, you know, whether it’s teaching folks how to start a union or how to become unionized or providing support for unions in libraries, or, you know, also teaching library workers how to advocate for themselves with, or without a union. You know, that’s the kind of stuff they don’t teach us in library school that we need to know, and we need to be able to do every day. So I think that that is a place where that voice that I know a lot of folks really want right now can come out and then I’m super excited to see what that looks like.
Steve Thomas:
I’ve done interviews with the ALA presidential candidates most years for the last 10 years or so that I’ve been doing the podcast. And every time I bring that up, they’re kind of like, “Oh, nobody ever asks about that!” It’s like, it just never comes up in people’s thoughts about it. So that, like you said, it’s important to get that more people may not even know that that exists. And I know I personally share a lot of the articles that I get in the newsletter that I get as part of APA. And I share that with my staff a lot of times, because they’re very useful. So whatever part-time staff member or whatever is putting that newsletter together, if you’re listening, I am paying attention to what you’re doing.
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Beatrice Calvin, Kimberly Redd, and Lorelle Swader, do a wonderful job with very limited resources for APA. So I’m going to pass that along to them.
Steve Thomas:
So, to kind of wrap up, can you kind of give a pitch almost for ALA of how you would sell it to somebody who’s a little reluctant maybe to join the organization, what value the organization can provide to them?
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Sure. So I think that, you know, for library workers, I think that it’s important. You know, that ALA this is where so much of our advocacy lies and where I think real change can happen, but, you know, like we talked about, I think that’s been a thread throughout, it can only happen when all voices are at the table and that means all staff members, right? That means whether you’re a librarian, whether you’re a page, whether you’re a clerk, whether you’re an administrator, everybody needs to be at the table. And I think right now, as we’re looking at, you know, furloughs, we’re looking at budget cuts and we have to make tough decisions on where to send our money. I think that for folks who are maybe on the fence, you know, take advantage of those discounted membership rates, especially right now, for those, furloughed, like free conference registrations and the like, so explore the Association and see where you can make a difference for others, you know, and those who come after us, right. Because we’re setting the stage for the future. And I think that if folks, you know, see it as just, Oh, I’m going to pay to volunteer, which is a whole different conversation. It also doesn’t have to be committee work, right? Like you don’t have to necessarily put labor into that. I see, you know, I’m a member of a lot of different associations and I don’t volunteer for all of them, but I see my membership dues as a donation, right? That is a donation on ALA’s terms. I would say that’s a donation to the Public Policy and Advocacy office to support their work in their legislative agenda and making things happen on behalf of libraries in Washington. And then, you know, for non-library staff, too, you know, this is the American Library Association, it’s for everyone who loves libraries. I think that for every patron who walks through our doors, they’re a potential ALA member, too, you know, if they believe in our mission and our services and they find value in what they have and what we have to offer, I think that, you know, if they believe their community needs a library, then they can join us also to make sure that we stick around and that we’re here and that we change and we become the partner between the community and library workers to ensure information access for all, and to ensure that our library workers are supported and protected as well. You know, this Association is for everyone, and so I think that when we do that, when we remember that that’s going to get us through this next 145 years and hopefully get a lot more members along the way.
Steve Thomas:
Yeah. I sometimes hear people talking about, Oh, well, I’m just, I’m so fed up with ALA, let’s go start another organization. And then we can do all that… And I, you know, I wish people luck with whatever they want to do in their things, but I don’t think ALA is beyond repair, even as bad as you’d maybe think it is, you know, why don’t work from the inside to make it, if you’re not a member, then your voice isn’t being heard. So it’s important, I think, for everybody to get involved. You know, I mean, it is already established and there’s a power to that. You can’t just make a lobbying office in Washington that people listen to, whereas right now senators and representatives know of ALA in some way, at least, and we’ll take meetings with people, and that’s important. So I think it’s important to work through organizations like that sometimes that just the longevity of the organization gives it some power there, too.
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
It does. And I think that, you know, by working to improve and working to change, we’re also building on the foundation of those who came before us, that, you know, and so we’re honoring the work that has come before us, but showing that we can, you know, make those changes and be that difference. And I think that, you know, for those folks who, when they get mad, they’re like, “I’m not going to renew my membership,” you know, or “I’m never going to join ALA again!”, I hope that we can prove to them, you know, that we can change and we can be that Association that they want to see, and we can bring them back. But, you know, there’s some days where I don’t blame them, you know, I get real mad too at ALA, but, you know, I’m like you, Steve, I think that we can work from the inside and there is a lot of hope for us.
Steve Thomas:
Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming on Lessa, and letting my listeners know about your campaign and if they have, anybody has followup questions or wants to learn more about you and your campaign, how can they do that?
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Absolutely. So please feel free, you can email me at [email protected], all spelled out, or you can learn more about my campaign on my website, lessaforlibraries.com. You can catch me on Twitter @lessa4libraries but this one is the number 4, not F-O-R because that was too many letters, and I didn’t plan that out accordingly. And also on Facebook and Instagram at Lessa for Libraries, but all spread out. So I’m here. I’m happy to answer emails and questions.
Steve Thomas:
All right, Lessa, good luck in the election.
Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada:
Thank you so much, hope to hear from you all soon!
Circulating Ideas 