this is what happens when I'm angry at work
I was in an ALLCAPS RAGE today at work because of some work stuff, and of course that meant that I needed to have a totally not-work-related conversation with 
herongale in email. The topic we chose today is Skywarp's teleportation ability. Because trying to put limits and definitions on something that was invented for a toy intended for tweeners 25 years ago is a worthwhile use of my time.
I think it's just easier to reproduce the emails because it demonstrates how my inner geek unfolds as I get to thinking about it.
Herongale:
I have a distracting question for you. What do you think is the limit of Skywarp's warping range? I've been imagining that it is visual distance. Specifically, on Earth he wouldn't be able to warp beyond his visible horizon, and in space he is unable to warp beyond the point that he can visually discern the contents of space between him and the place he wants to go (meaning, he can't just warp from star to star, because even though he can see the stars, he can't resolve all of the contents in space between here and there). So in space, he'd have a significantly larger range, but it would still be finite. Your thoughts?
Anax:
Officially, the range is 2 miles.
However, officially, Thundercracker's sonic weapon maxes out at something like 250 decibels, and Starscream's top speed is Mach 2.8. Both of these numbers seem ludicrous, so I am inclined to give Skywarp's teleportation a somewhat longer (and unspecified so that I don't have to paint myself into any corners) range.
I don't think it would be limited by what he can see, though. I think it would be limited by the amount of power he can put into it. He would be able to teleport into a closed space if he wanted to (although that would be dangerous if he didn't have the dimensions of the space exactly mapped out) but the range is going to be finite no matter if the space between here and there is clear or not.
I would think that the limit is a soft one rather than a hard one - probably the amount of energy it takes to teleport increases either exponentially or logarithmically as the distance increases, so it's more energy-efficient to make several small jumps rather than one really long one. Hence the "official" 2-mile limit ... that's probably the max he usually jumps due to efficiency concerns, but he's capable of going farther if he has to.
Herongale:
See, I'm not sure why it would take more energy to warp a lot of space than a little. I guess it depends on what sci fi version of warping properties one wants to adhere to. :)
I like the sight limitation because I consider it a safety issue... he needs to know where he is going. For this reason, I'm not a fan of the idea that he can warp into a closed space except under the conditions you mention (AND if he knows, via intelligence or direct surveillence, that the contents of the closed space are stable... wouldn't be wise for him to go into a room full of people!).
Anax:
Teleportation is theoretically possible given known physics, but it requires energy and the energy has to come from somewhere. The way it works is that information (energy) is transposed between two particles that are separated by a distance, and the farther apart they are, the more energy it takes to make the transfer.
The type of warping that Skywarp does is pretty much impossible by what we know ... the theory I'm going with is that he actually folds space-time so that two points momentary overlap, and then when they separate he goes with the other one rather than his starting point. This would again require more energy for farther distances - just like it requires more energy to fold a huge sheet of paper than a small one.
And now, I go to lunch!
Herongale:
I suppose I can buy that. Perhaps that is why he has to ask Megatron for permission before using it!
Enjoy your lunch! I'll talk to you tonight.
After I got back from lunch, I'd had more time to think about it, and I came up with this:
Upon further thought, teleportation with a fixed energy cost and a theoretically unlimited range could be used to violate the first law of thermodynamics, and possibly also the second.
Consider:
An object suspended at a certain height above a massive object (source of a gravity well) contains an amount of potential energy equal to the kinetic energy it would release if allow to drop (1st law). Not all of this energy can be captured as work (2nd law), some will be lost as heat to inefficiency in the system.
No matter what the fixed energy cost of the teleportation is, there will be some distance over some mass that Skywarp can fall which will cause him to release enough kinetic energy to exceed the amount of energy required to teleport up there from the ground. If you presume a sufficiently massive object (a planet or a star) then Skywarp could fall from a sufficient height to the surface, releasing kinetic energy, some portion of which could be captured as work and converted into energon. An instant before impact, he could then teleport back up the gravity well, and fall back down into it again, again capturing some of the kinetic energy as work.
After awhile, he runs out of power, drinks the energon thus collected, and then continues.
If the cost of his teleportation is less than the amount of kinetic energy he produces while falling, then he is violating the 1st law by creating energy from nothing. If he furthermore manages to exceed the cost of his teleportation sufficiently to overcome the energy lost to entropy, then the total amount of energon he produces by this method would exceed the amount he uses, and he can create unlimited energon indefinitely as a perpetual motion machine, thereby violating the 2nd law.
As for why he has to ask Megatron before using it, I think that's because he's stupid. :D
When I got home tonight, we had a little followup:
[19:53] <herongale> I got your email about Skywarp and violations of the laws of physics. I say, why not? :)
[19:53] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> hi!
[19:54] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> I'm not prepared to throw away thermodynamics when it's so much more satisfying to include them :D
[19:54] <herongale> lol
[19:54] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> it stimulates the "geek" portion of my brain
[19:55] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> bizarro
[19:55] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> I bought a bottle of vitamins and I just opened them
[19:55] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> and the safety seal was somehow fused to the cap and came off when I uncapped it
[19:56] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> so I have no idea if it was intact under there or not
[19:56] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> I wonder if I should trust these
[19:56] <herongale> I guess I see things like time travel and mass conversion issues (eg, when Megatron transformers into a tiny gun, or Skyfire into a huge shuttle), and other magical things, and I turn off the science part of my brain XD
[19:56] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> they look okay but so did those tampered Tylenols
[19:56] <herongale> you would probably feel better if you returned them and exchanged them
[19:56] <herongale> and it's not like you won't live for skipping the vitamins today
[19:57] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> yeah, I probably would
[19:57] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> I reckon I ought to find the reciept
[19:58] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> anyway
[19:58] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> Megatron crushing himself down into a tiny gun doesn't lend itself to an easy violation of thermodynamics
[19:58] <herongale> I know, there are ways to explain it.
[19:58] <herongale> But it could just as easily be nonsensical!
[19:58] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> whereas imagining Skywarp powering a gigantic flywheel by teleporting up to the top over and over is both fun to picture and totally unkosher :D
[19:59] <herongale> lol
[19:59] <herongale> it's prolly just as well he doesn't have that ability, or I reckon he'd do little else
[19:59] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> I could see him going WHEEEEEE! every time he comes down
[19:59] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> every
[19:59] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> fucking
[19:59] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> time
[19:59] <herongale> it would be like ruding a roller coaster!
[19:59] <herongale> er, riding
[20:00] <herongale> thank goodness he'd be in another dimension for most of it because otherwise he'd drive TC nuts. He probably would drive him nuts anyway. :)
[20:00] * Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP nodsnods!
So there you have it. My thoughts on Skywarp and his amazing awesome special ability that he uses precisely 4 times.
herongale in email. The topic we chose today is Skywarp's teleportation ability. Because trying to put limits and definitions on something that was invented for a toy intended for tweeners 25 years ago is a worthwhile use of my time.I think it's just easier to reproduce the emails because it demonstrates how my inner geek unfolds as I get to thinking about it.
Herongale:
I have a distracting question for you. What do you think is the limit of Skywarp's warping range? I've been imagining that it is visual distance. Specifically, on Earth he wouldn't be able to warp beyond his visible horizon, and in space he is unable to warp beyond the point that he can visually discern the contents of space between him and the place he wants to go (meaning, he can't just warp from star to star, because even though he can see the stars, he can't resolve all of the contents in space between here and there). So in space, he'd have a significantly larger range, but it would still be finite. Your thoughts?
Anax:
Officially, the range is 2 miles.
However, officially, Thundercracker's sonic weapon maxes out at something like 250 decibels, and Starscream's top speed is Mach 2.8. Both of these numbers seem ludicrous, so I am inclined to give Skywarp's teleportation a somewhat longer (and unspecified so that I don't have to paint myself into any corners) range.
I don't think it would be limited by what he can see, though. I think it would be limited by the amount of power he can put into it. He would be able to teleport into a closed space if he wanted to (although that would be dangerous if he didn't have the dimensions of the space exactly mapped out) but the range is going to be finite no matter if the space between here and there is clear or not.
I would think that the limit is a soft one rather than a hard one - probably the amount of energy it takes to teleport increases either exponentially or logarithmically as the distance increases, so it's more energy-efficient to make several small jumps rather than one really long one. Hence the "official" 2-mile limit ... that's probably the max he usually jumps due to efficiency concerns, but he's capable of going farther if he has to.
Herongale:
See, I'm not sure why it would take more energy to warp a lot of space than a little. I guess it depends on what sci fi version of warping properties one wants to adhere to. :)
I like the sight limitation because I consider it a safety issue... he needs to know where he is going. For this reason, I'm not a fan of the idea that he can warp into a closed space except under the conditions you mention (AND if he knows, via intelligence or direct surveillence, that the contents of the closed space are stable... wouldn't be wise for him to go into a room full of people!).
Anax:
Teleportation is theoretically possible given known physics, but it requires energy and the energy has to come from somewhere. The way it works is that information (energy) is transposed between two particles that are separated by a distance, and the farther apart they are, the more energy it takes to make the transfer.
The type of warping that Skywarp does is pretty much impossible by what we know ... the theory I'm going with is that he actually folds space-time so that two points momentary overlap, and then when they separate he goes with the other one rather than his starting point. This would again require more energy for farther distances - just like it requires more energy to fold a huge sheet of paper than a small one.
And now, I go to lunch!
Herongale:
I suppose I can buy that. Perhaps that is why he has to ask Megatron for permission before using it!
Enjoy your lunch! I'll talk to you tonight.
After I got back from lunch, I'd had more time to think about it, and I came up with this:
Upon further thought, teleportation with a fixed energy cost and a theoretically unlimited range could be used to violate the first law of thermodynamics, and possibly also the second.
Consider:
An object suspended at a certain height above a massive object (source of a gravity well) contains an amount of potential energy equal to the kinetic energy it would release if allow to drop (1st law). Not all of this energy can be captured as work (2nd law), some will be lost as heat to inefficiency in the system.
No matter what the fixed energy cost of the teleportation is, there will be some distance over some mass that Skywarp can fall which will cause him to release enough kinetic energy to exceed the amount of energy required to teleport up there from the ground. If you presume a sufficiently massive object (a planet or a star) then Skywarp could fall from a sufficient height to the surface, releasing kinetic energy, some portion of which could be captured as work and converted into energon. An instant before impact, he could then teleport back up the gravity well, and fall back down into it again, again capturing some of the kinetic energy as work.
After awhile, he runs out of power, drinks the energon thus collected, and then continues.
If the cost of his teleportation is less than the amount of kinetic energy he produces while falling, then he is violating the 1st law by creating energy from nothing. If he furthermore manages to exceed the cost of his teleportation sufficiently to overcome the energy lost to entropy, then the total amount of energon he produces by this method would exceed the amount he uses, and he can create unlimited energon indefinitely as a perpetual motion machine, thereby violating the 2nd law.
As for why he has to ask Megatron before using it, I think that's because he's stupid. :D
When I got home tonight, we had a little followup:
[19:53] <herongale> I got your email about Skywarp and violations of the laws of physics. I say, why not? :)
[19:53] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> hi!
[19:54] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> I'm not prepared to throw away thermodynamics when it's so much more satisfying to include them :D
[19:54] <herongale> lol
[19:54] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> it stimulates the "geek" portion of my brain
[19:55] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> bizarro
[19:55] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> I bought a bottle of vitamins and I just opened them
[19:55] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> and the safety seal was somehow fused to the cap and came off when I uncapped it
[19:56] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> so I have no idea if it was intact under there or not
[19:56] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> I wonder if I should trust these
[19:56] <herongale> I guess I see things like time travel and mass conversion issues (eg, when Megatron transformers into a tiny gun, or Skyfire into a huge shuttle), and other magical things, and I turn off the science part of my brain XD
[19:56] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> they look okay but so did those tampered Tylenols
[19:56] <herongale> you would probably feel better if you returned them and exchanged them
[19:56] <herongale> and it's not like you won't live for skipping the vitamins today
[19:57] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> yeah, I probably would
[19:57] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> I reckon I ought to find the reciept
[19:58] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> anyway
[19:58] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> Megatron crushing himself down into a tiny gun doesn't lend itself to an easy violation of thermodynamics
[19:58] <herongale> I know, there are ways to explain it.
[19:58] <herongale> But it could just as easily be nonsensical!
[19:58] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> whereas imagining Skywarp powering a gigantic flywheel by teleporting up to the top over and over is both fun to picture and totally unkosher :D
[19:59] <herongale> lol
[19:59] <herongale> it's prolly just as well he doesn't have that ability, or I reckon he'd do little else
[19:59] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> I could see him going WHEEEEEE! every time he comes down
[19:59] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> every
[19:59] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> fucking
[19:59] <Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP> time
[19:59] <herongale> it would be like ruding a roller coaster!
[19:59] <herongale> er, riding
[20:00] <herongale> thank goodness he'd be in another dimension for most of it because otherwise he'd drive TC nuts. He probably would drive him nuts anyway. :)
[20:00] * Skeith|HaseoWillAlwaysBeMyOTP nodsnods!
So there you have it. My thoughts on Skywarp and his amazing awesome special ability that he uses precisely 4 times.